405 engine transplant

avidscavenger

New member
Tadpole
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
12
Location
Country WA
Hello,
After blowing the timing belt on my 405 Diesel (ouch), I'm looking at doing an engine transplant from my spare car. I have a few questions about how to proceed:
According to the Haynes, you need to remove the air con condensor to do this job. But that requires a de-gas and from where I live I'd need a refrigeration person to travel something like 250km round trip to do that job. Or else tow the car 250km round trip. Either way I'd like to avoid it. Looking under the bonnet it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to manoeuvre the engine out with the condensor in situ. Obviously there's a risk of damage but a piece of ply cut to size and sitting over the condensor should take care of that. Also should be possible if necessary to remove some bits and bobs (eg alternator, power steering pump, oil filter) to make the engine a bit narrower.
I know there's also the option of doing it the Peugeot way of dropping the engine out from underneath. But my work environment makes that look very difficult and unpleasant. I'd much rather pull it out the top.
Some subsidiary questions: any suggestions about what to do (other than change the timing belt!) while I'm doing the transplant and have the engine out of the vehicle? Clutch seems an obvious one. Turbo maybe? Anything else?
Final question, when I finally get it done I might strip down the busted engine to check out the damage. I understand that best case scenario is just bent valves, worst includes damage to pistons and bearings. Can anyone point me to how to diagnose how bad the damage is and what the repair costs are likely to be? I'm on the South Coast of WA but reasonably frequently in Perth.
Many thanks to those sharing their wisdom and experience!
 
You can leave the AC in place. Remove the radiator and cable tie compressor, dryer etc. up out of the way. As long as you have 600mm under the front bumper, it's far easier to remove engine & gearbox assembly by dropping it underneath.
 
You can leave the AC in place. Remove the radiator and cable tie compressor, dryer etc. up out of the way. As long as you have 600mm under the front bumper, it's far easier to remove engine & gearbox assembly by dropping it underneath.
That was the way they put them in from underneath
 
Problem is I don't, at least not easily/safely. Bush mechanics here...

So you have to jack up the car to remove the wheels, driveshafts etc. Just go a bit more and put stands under the rails.
 
Take the rocker cover off you may find that the bearing caps on the cam are broken and ,my cam was snapped ,as a valve had been punched straight up ,this is at idle speed ,pull the head off and check the lip in the bore ,mine was so worn i couldnt remove the pistons as the rings were catching on the ridge ,i managed to find a recently re coed engine out of a wreck ,did the swap at home in my car port using stands and floor jacks ,i think i removed the gearbox and engine separately,as i was working on my own , out the bottom ,an engine crane would make it easier droping both at once ,,drop it onto a sheet of form ply with some broom handles under it so you can drag the engine and gearbox out ,i once drilled a couple of holes in the ply attached a rope then towed the engine out gently with another car ,
 
Clearly people on this forum seem to disagree with Haynes about the virtues of raising rather than lowering. I have to way I'm still loathe to raise the car any more than absolutely necessary as I'm working on irregular earth not a nice flat concrete slab. :/ Ever since I had one car fall sideways off wheel ramps I've had bit of a fear there. Raising rather than lowering the engine means I can leave the sub-frame on with nice solid blocks of wood underneath it. But maybe I'm missing some reason why raising the engine is difficult - perhaps the air-con issue?
 
I hear what you say about safety. I, too, had a bad experience many years ago when working on an irregular earth surface.
 
Can't you squeeze a thick sturdy wood beam across the car far enough back to be out of the way and allow the engine to drop? Put it on top of solid stands or piles of bricks if terrain not solid. A longer beam gives you better room underneath as well because it spreads the stands out.

I am asking because lifting the engine is a pain in the dorongo, and I am talking from the experience of only dealing with 205 Pugs. The engine needs to come a lot higher than you think to clear all the obstacles in the way because you have to tilt it so one corner will hang down (g'box end). Oh, and I had the front completely dismantled and the engine bay cleared out completely.

You could take the g'box off and lift it then, but that requires you lower the engine pretty much to the floor so you're not far from sliding it out from underneath. Otherwise, like I said, you will have to lift it a lot higher than you think. A piece of MDF or such will help to drop it on and slide it out.
 
It is much worse raising the engine in the 405 as you can't remove the left hand engine mounting from the body (except for S2 Mi16) as you can in a 205.
 
I’ve done these motors either way. Top or bottom... from where I see it though, you’re going to have to be underneath to undo driveshafts, driveshaft bearing carrier, exhaust, air con compressor, rear mount... k frame. None of that changes weather you’re taking it out top or bottom... All of that underneath stuff has to be taken off from underneath anyway and you can undo all that stuff with the motor still bolted in on the top motor mount and gearbox mount. With all that stuff disconnected the rest is done from the top anyway (beatbox mount boot, right side engine mount, electrical connections, gear shift, speedo cable, clutch cable. If you get it to the point where all the underneath stuff is done and motor is just held in with the top engine mount and gearbox mount, then you can go either way... at this point there is no need for you to put yourself under the supported car if you’re taking it out the bottom. However, chances are that even if you want to take it out the top, at this point in time you’ll probably realize that dropping the gearbox down and removing that beifore lifting the motor up will make it a lot less fiddler, and this will require going under again.
... anyway, that’s just one way to look at it, before you start in this though, it’s not that hard to get the head off in situ... how many k’s has the motor got on it? Did it use oil before it failed? It’s likely damage in these motors will be contained to the valves and head so may pay to pull it off first and see.
 
I blew the head gasket in my 309 rally car a week ago, overheated due to fan not coming on I think. Engine is still in the car but I took the opportunity to replace the rings, no harder than with the engine out. So yes, take the head off you may be able to do all you want with the block in place.
 
For the benefit of anyone still interested, I found it straightforward enough to drop the engine, remove the gearbox while it was sitting on the ground (tip: loosen the bolts before removing any engine mounts), then lift the engine out the top. Didn't require lifting the car more than I was comfortable with. It might be possible to remove engine and gearbox together out the top, but with the battery stand welded to the body (why?) it would have been quite squeezy, with associated risk of damaging the radiator (I left that in place) and the ABS. With the gearbox, intake/exhaust manifold and turbo removed, there was plenty of room to remove the engine without having to be super precise with the hoist placement.

By the sound of it the 405 has a bit more space in the engine bay than some of those smaller models.
 
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