307 2.0 HDI T6 auto ATF oil change?

[georgehifi]

Hi guys, I know they are supposed to be sealed for "life" but I want to change the ATF in the auto. Has anyone posted intructions on how to do it?
What is the way to do it ?
Where is the filler hole located? (as I remember the Volvo T5 Aisin box if you removed the wrong screw on top it was bad news)
I believe that the oil should be ATF 3309 specified (JWS 3309) and have found the cheapest way of buying it is from Toyota (Type-IV)
My book says it only takes 2.5lt but that cannot be a complete change, it must be more than that.

Cheers George

 

[SLC206]

My book says it only takes 2.5lt but that cannot be a complete change, it must be more than that.

Cheers George

As with most modern autos, you can't completely change the oil in one go - only 2-3 litres at a time.

If you want to go searching for a change procedure, the 6sp auto gearbox is known as an AM6.

 

[georgehifi]

Thanks for replying Simon. Tried to search but no answers to my questions.
On my wife's Volvo Aisin T5 (AM5) I was able to drain/pump out the oil. From the ATF cooler return hose disconnected from the trany into a container by then starting it up and waiting for bubbles to appear, putting the same amount of new oil back into the box and doing the process about 3 times. This renews all the oil in the trany sump, torque converter and atf radiator cooler.
Also I need a pic of if available where and what the refill bolt looks like as the Volvo had a few in the same area and removing the wrong one meant a trany dismantle job.

Cheers George

 

[georgehifi]

What do the auto guru's of this forum think?

TF-80SC Which is said to be the same as the AM6 that Peugeot uses, these are the Volvo intruction on how to replenish the whole ATF System

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/enesd/2011-01-01_185206_xc90_v8_transmission_fluid_change.pdf


and a similar one, what is interesting is for only 58k mls how dirty the so called filled for life oil is.
http://v70r.com/forums/topic/13311-v70r-geartronic-transmission-fluid-change-how-to/

And another one similar
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=149516


Cheers George

 

[SLC206]

By now you may have realised there's not too much oil change experience with the Aisin AM6 gearbox on this forum

For your info, I looked at the parts list and it lists the oil (Peugeot p/n 9980 D4) as "JWS 3309" fluid, so there's part of your answer.

As to the Volvo instructions, the oil cooler on the Pug is different - it's a small canister on the gearbox, as opposed to the Volvo one, which appears to be part of the radiator assembly.

Peugeot's method is to drain the box via the drain plug at a gearbox temp of 60 deg (that is the large one that you remove by taking out the small one inside it). They then refill the gearbox via the plug on the top.

Then the level is checked (again at 60 deg) until only a drip flow is coming from the smaller of the two plugs on the bottom.

I suggest you download the C6 mechanics handbook at this dodgy site:

Dodgy Polish site.

...(it's called "(2005) C6_GB.pdf") to familiarise yourself with the "official" procedure - it's 8.6M.

I've attached a pic of the gearbox bits you need to consider, plus here is a french language pdf version of the whole thing that has some good pics:

Pics worth a thousand words

I can't comment on whether the refill via the cooler lines method will be ok or not.

The tools needed are a T40 & T55 torx and a 17mm (!!) allen key, by the looks of things.

If you get it done, please let us all know how you go. You'll certainly get no arguments here about "sealed for life" gearboxes.

 

[georgehifi]

Thanks very much Simon, those links are great, as you can tell I am new to this forum and yes you are right there's not too much mechanical diy going on here which is a shame.
As previous cars that I've had there's always been a wealth of techincal info on other forums, pity it must be a French thing not to get ones hands too dirty.

I did see this round unit (circled in red) when I had a quick look under the car and it has two beefy hoses comming of it that look like cooler in and out hoses, so I'll see where they go once I get the car up off the groung nice and level so I can have a good look under there, I'll report back if the pump out method is viable.

Cheers George

 

[Armidillo]

Thems fightin' words!!

...

As previous cars that I've had there's always been a wealth of technical info on other forums, pity it must be a French thing not to get ones hands too dirty.

...

Cheers George

I think you'll find that there's plenty of technical info and help for earlier models (ie any Peugeot model that ends with a number less than '7' ). Maybe the x07 models are so reliable that people don't need to get their hands dirty .

Cheers

Alec

 

[georgehifi]

Maybe the x07 models are so reliable that people don't need to get their hands dirty .

Cheers

Alec

Doubt that very much when you see the difference in colour (in the pic) after only 58k mls and it should still be red, in the link I posted earlier.

Cheers George

 

[georgehifi]

And here is what the book said about it (note the words replace transmission)

Cheers George

 

[addo]

Yes there is a lot of employment of hands on Aussiefrogs for purposes other than car repair, but quite a few people do actually get involved in major dismantling and overhaul exercises.

Some of us tire readily of the arguments and procrastination that needlessly disrupt useful intercourse. That may well mean, they couldn't be arsed "sharing the knowledge" any longer.

Your hoses to and from the oil heat exchanger, are likely to be coolant hoses - it's the way PSA like to package their trans cooling, rather than share heat load directly with the engine radiator.

Oil dyes sometimes change colour with standard range heat exposure, so the "dirtiness" you describe can partially be the browning off of a brighter dye colour. Also, the transmission will have a variety of filters and catching devices from magnets to strainers; ATF that enters the pump will be quite clean although discoloured. When the filters become blocked you will of course experience issues.

One of the reasons to change the whole transmission in the event of large problems, is it reduces liability/responsibility upon the installing agents. This is an area where the recent history of PSA is littered with poor dealer service and attitudes. Mind you, the large dealer on Sydney's North Shore who fitted my (non AM6) replacement gearbox managed break a lot of peripheral brackets and clips on the way through...

A browse through Serve Iceblocks could offer a little illumination on where the filler plug may be found - look for a seal washer.

 

[georgehifi]

Some of us tire readily of the arguments and procrastination that needlessly disrupt useful intercourse. That may well mean, they couldn't be arsed "sharing the knowledge" any longer.

Whats the use of having a forum then, others work quite well and have a vast knowledge bank of information for the diy'er, to fix things themselves, instead of running to the shop and waisting thousands and sometimes getting a worse job done eg: (Mind you, the large dealer on Sydney's North Shore who fitted my (non AM6) replacement gearbox managed break a lot of peripheral brackets and clips on the way through...)




Oil dyes sometimes change colour with standard range heat exposure, so the "dirtiness" you describe can partially be the browning off of a brighter dye colour.

I believe any mechanic worth his salt wouls say change the ATF if it is almost black instead of clear red.


A browse through Serve Iceblocks could offer a little illumination on where the filler plug may be found - look for a seal washer.

Found in the links that Simon presented, a real diy helper who shares his knowledge.

Thanks Cheers George

 

[addo]

One thing that you were not here for, was the Great Crash of 2010.

Just prior to that point, the forum owner had thrown the entire forum up for sale; asking price $50K (IIRC). That in itself, put a few noses out of joint; what knowledge and time had been given freely in the spirit of a self-help community was now indisputably the core of a nominated value of asset.

For clarity, I will state that McC's worked on my car before it were mine - I would not allow a dealer near it, nor fit a reco 'box from the official supplier. Every question I had for those pricks, they dodged.

Returning to the topic of your anxiety - PSA really soiled their nest with the 4HP20 box. It was all but guaranteed to fail around 150-160K in a manner that required removal and complete dismantling. The AL4 weakness was not so dramatic unless people were unaware of the service bulletins or need for minor upgrades (admittedly, ones which dealers robbed them for). Beyond that there is no great history of autobox failures; the faults I see most commonly on BSI-equipped cars when using PP/Lexia are radio aerial permanent fault (they're born with it, I reckon), a steering angle sensor fault (not sure on cause; voltage fluctuations or perhaps dust if it's optoelectronic) and good old BSI issues like premature lurching into economy mode (the BSI is usually replaced here at up to four times the European cost ex-VAT).

Look up an Irish bloke who calls himself Betty Swallocks - he's not on this Forum - and ask him about getting the most up to date version of Diagbox and hardware to suit. He's honest and prompt. Although not cheap, it will equip you quite well.

 

[DoubleChevron]

One thing that you were not here for, was the Great Crash of 2010.

Just prior to that point, the forum owner had thrown the entire forum up for sale; asking price $50K (IIRC). That in itself, put a few noses out of joint; what knowledge and time had been given freely in the spirit of a self-help community was now indisputably the core of a nominated value of asset.

For clarity, I will state that McC's worked on my car before it were mine - I would not allow a dealer near it, nor fit a reco 'box from the official supplier. Every question I had for those pricks, they dodged.

Returning to the topic of your anxiety - PSA really soiled their nest with the 4HP20 box. It was all but guaranteed to fail around 150-160K in a manner that required removal and complete dismantling. The AL4 weakness was not so dramatic unless people were unaware of the service bulletins or need for minor upgrades (admittedly, ones which dealers robbed them for). Beyond that there is no great history of autobox failures; the faults I see most commonly on BSI-equipped cars when using PP/Lexia are radio aerial permanent fault (they're born with it, I reckon), a steering angle sensor fault (not sure on cause; voltage fluctuations or perhaps dust if it's optoelectronic) and good old BSI issues like premature lurching into economy mode (the BSI is usually replaced here at up to four times the European cost ex-VAT).

Look up an Irish bloke who calls himself Betty Swallocks - he's not on this Forum - and ask him about getting the most up to date version of Diagbox and hardware to suit. He's honest and prompt. Although not cheap, it will equip you quite well.

Gee's Addo,

that's a bit rough. What's going on mate Gibgib has put over a decade of his life into building this site and paid for it all out of his own pocket until we started getting sponsorship on here recently. he's also gone through the stress of having complete nutters on here threatening him with legal action. And you blame him for trying to sell the site Gee's, I can't believe were lucky enough that he put puts the effort and time into this place to keep it running ( it must be a huge burden and stress keeping such a big site running). If I started this site and started have people threaten me with court action....... I'd just tell them to shove the site where the sun don't shine and shut it down............... But he's persisted, which has helped out most Australian french car owners by a huge amount.

This site has helped out countless people over the years. Who cares if it's just a "discussion" forum for most. Even if only 5% of the members are the type to go out and get there hands dirty ............ that 5% can pass on enormous amounts of hard earned experience to others that want to have an attempt at working on there own car.

I have no idea about the 4HP20 .... the brilliance of this site is now the next person with the same questions will find this thread and be helped by it.

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[addo]

I wasted too much of my life being amicable to undeserving people.

Anyhow - possibly the best autobox repair threads I have seen were on a UK LandRover forum (4HP20 box and dozens of people joined up just to view the pics or tax the fellow's brains) and the UK XM forum (not Ciaran's one) where a fellow repaired a broken 4HP18 in-situ using pieces off a HDD. Really.

But returning to the core issue of this thread - Mechanics will only go out of their way to change ATF on a sealed box if specifically instructed by a customer - and will probably make the point of disclaiming any and all resultant issues of liability. Otherwise it's a potential risk; you do something in good faith and it bites you on the arse - see my first sentence. Similarly, the only time ATF is assessed qualitatively (ie; colour or smell) is usually when a customer raises an issue about the trans - or it's observed on a test drive (and go read a Holden/Ford forum if you want to hear people mouthing off about mechanics test driving their cars - in ways that are often absolutely necessary to determine if the vehicle has been fully fixed). A workshop that features "technicians" as opposed to mechanics, and touts a flashier level of presentation, will inevitably charge more, which in turn leads people to decide they'll DIY...

With ServiceBox and Diagbox plus the PP connector, I'm confident our OP will be fine; being able to read live parameters (and have someone help explain them if necessary) is usually quite reassuring.

 

[georgehifi]

Mechanics will only go out of their way to change ATF on a sealed box if specifically instructed by a customer.

Sorry you've got that around the wrong way, If asked by a customer a mechanic would say 100% yes to have the ATF changed in transmission if it were at or over 100km.
And I bet my ----- that the same mechanic would change it himself without even questioning it if it were his own car.

Cheers George

 

[young 4 old pug]

At my work we change auto oil in all manuals and autos at 20k intervals. The changes in shift quality on AL4/DPO and AM6s is unbelievable

 

[SLC206]

At my work we change auto oil in all manuals and autos at 20k intervals. The changes in shift quality on AL4/DPO and AM6s is unbelievable

Did the Albury dealer also do this?

 

[young 4 old pug]

Bakers? Yes. The service manager (ex vw/BMW) came in a year before I left, basically said peugeots logic was flawed and offers auto flush every major service.

 

[lauriel]

I used Advanced Automatic Transmission Services of West Ryde to maintain my AL4 boxes (Citreon Xsara and Renault Clio) and AM6 box in Pug 407. I found improved gearchanges after their work in all cases.

 

[addo]

One of the simplest fixes is often correct fluid level.

I drove a Xsara that was so overfilled it had mega vibration from fluid drag - horrible - about 1½ litres excess came out. Low fluid seems to cause delayed (ie; harsh) shifts when cold; at least for LT71141 the change in KV with temperature is quite pronounced - hence warm shifts are better as the low oil level doesn't have such an impact. It takes an honest half hour's drive to get the 'box up to temp, and AM6s appear more substantially cooled like the 4HP20, so they might take longer again. This box probably has an oil thermostat as well, so a cold drop won't allow much fluid release.