207 GTi i think revs slower than it should...?

A

Andy's first frenchie

Member
Fellow Frogger
Tadpole
Tadpole
Joined
May 31, 2022
Messages
229
Location
Brisbane
Firstly, once again thank you so very much for all the help I've received from you froggers, and putting up with my epic thread.

Can you please have a looksee at my YouTube clip and tell me if this is normal speed of revving (that doesn't sound right) in neutral, clutch out, because I'm of a mind that it's fairly slow.

My stock 1990 MX-5 revs considerably faster, and my Mazda3 MPS (yes I like Mazdas) revs stupid fast.

Is the GTi engine under-square?

 
It doesn't look overly slow to me. I can film my 308 gti 270 later if you want to compare a similar engine. Do these 207s use dual mass flywheels? If so, they're pretty heavy and slow down the revs but smooth out the vibration. On Wednesday I'm swapping mine out for a nice solid flywheel that's slightly lightened. I should do a side by side comparison...
 
It would be awesome if you can take a video the same. And yeah, it would be a good thing to record before and after your upgrade.

Obviously different cars but at least I'll get an idea, and it would make me feel immensely better if what you say about how its not overly slow is true :)

When driving and giving it beans, it revs at a glacial level. It never feels like its pulling and its not until i look at the speedo and see that im up to speed already.

One day I'll get a mate to record the tacho as I'm full throttle.
 
Engine bore 77mm; stroke 85.8 mm

Idle speed varies, as it's faster at start up. It settles down warm to a bit under 1000 rpm, say about 850 or so. The published torque curves begin at 1000 rpm. Max torque is from 1400 rpm, unchanged up to 3500 rpm
 
Surely the rate of increase of revs with wide open throttle and no load (out of gear) has a lot to do with the flywheel weight? Maybe your Mazda 3 has a very light flywheel, like a motor bike engine
 
The ep6dt engine doesn't have a conventional variable throttle.
 
seasink said:
Engine bore 77mm; stroke 85.8 mm

Idle speed varies, as it's faster at start up. It settles down warm to a bit under 1000 rpm, say about 850 or so. The published torque curves begin at 1000 rpm. Max torque is from 1400 rpm, unchanged up to 3500 rpm
Click to expand...
This low end torque is one of the main reasons bought it, for a more leisurely commute.
1st and 2nd is very underwhelming until around 3,800rpm and 3rd and above its ok from 2,400. Definitely don't feel anything much in any gear and any speed below 2,000.

Whilst the car was at the mechanics, I bought a cheap Volvo S40 T5 AWD auto and that definitely has the low end torque as advertised.
 
Armidillo said:
Surely the rate of increase of revs with wide open throttle and no load (out of gear) has a lot to do with the flywheel weight? Maybe your Mazda 3 has a very light flywheel, like a motor bike engine
Click to expand...
The engine has been worked on with forged everything and the clutch was replaced with an EXEDY something or rather AFAIK its not too fancy, but yeah a lighter flywheel would explain it. But my stock MX-5 doesn't have one so it should be comparable.
 
Andy's first frenchie said:
It would be awesome if you can take a video the same. And yeah, it would be a good thing to record before and after your upgrade.

Obviously different cars but at least I'll get an idea, and it would make me feel immensely better if what you say about how its not overly slow is true :)

When driving and giving it beans, it revs at a glacial level. It never feels like its pulling and its not until i look at the speedo and see that im up to speed already.

One day I'll get a mate to record the tacho as I'm full throttle.
Click to expand...

What gear are you usually in when "giving it beans"?
 
This doesn't sound like my EPCDT in the little Cit, which roars away in 1st and 2nd gear - you can easily lose your licence at traffic light cameras.

As the engine does not have a throttle in the normal sense, you can't compare it with a car that has. The butterfly is controlled entirely by the ECU and need not correspond to the accelerator pedal.
 
Armidillo said:
What gear are you usually in when "giving it beans"?
Click to expand...
Uhmmm.... every except 5th. Lets put it this way, if I didn't know it was a 1.6 turbo with the advertised low end torque, I would think its a decent 2.2 naturally aspirated.
Another thing also is didn't realise these are quite heavy for its class, plus mine has thr glass roof.
 
Roaring away in 1st and 2nd is certainly not how you would describe mine unless you're comparing it to a van.
But yes, that is what it should be.
Even with an energetic half dump at 1,800rpm its not inspiring.

My mates petrol Hi Ace honestly feels much more spritely in 1st and 2nd up to 50km/h just using normal revs.
 
Let's see if I can post this video... Rpm speed gain doesn't seem vastly different to your 207
 
lowpugV2 said:
Let's see if I can post this video... Rpm speed gain doesn't seem vastly different to your 207
Click to expand...
Thank you.
Why TF did they have the tacho going the opposite way 🥴 Aston Martin has some cars like that.
Hmmm... yeah it is very similar isn't it. Accelerator mashed all the way down?
 
Haha, yeah weird Reverso tacho. It is actually fine in use.

Foot wasn't mashed no. Just rolled on quickly, maybe not 100%. I'll do it again tomorrow when I have more time, but the engine is not the most fast and free revving out there. Mind you, I hit the limiter quite often in 2nd to 3rd changes as the last 2000rpm move quickly at full boost.
 
You are just watching the response of the tacho, nothing to do with the engine really and what it is doing.
Do a Bush Mechanic stupid test, flatten the pedal and see how long it takes before the rev limiter cuts the engine out.
No warranty on engine here
Now here is how you use a tacho
 
Andy's first frenchie said:
1st and 2nd is very underwhelming until around 3,800rpm and 3rd and above its ok from 2,400. Definitely don't feel anything much in any gear and any speed below 2,000.
Click to expand...
My 207 GTi is similar. For example I really need to drop to 1st to pull out of junctions etc. even if I'm rolling a bit - I can't just easily pull away in 2nd like you can with a big NA engine.
If I'm in a multi-story carpark I need to drop to 1st to get up the slopes ! But mine is making good power and I've got no issues at the moment (timing and carbon are all good on mine, recently rectified !!)

I think this is just how they are...
 
Nom said:
My 207 GTi is similar. For example I really need to drop to 1st to pull out of junctions etc. even if I'm rolling a bit - I can't just easily pull away in 2nd like you can with a big NA engine.
If I'm in a multi-story carpark I need to drop to 1st to get up the slopes ! But mine is making good power and I've got no issues at the moment (timing and carbon are all good on mine, recently rectified !!)

I think this is just how they are...
Click to expand...
"...need to drop to 1st to get up the slopes, but mine is making good power..."

See this is pretty much the opposite to my problem. If I can keep the revs above 1500 in 2nd then it pulls ok on any normal slope at low speed.
Its when it goes into "shit mode" which is no boost, that's when it struggles to up up an incline in 1st.
But having said that, the power/torque doesn't build. Kinda like driving through mud, or like a heavily slipping clutch. The clutch is fairly new btw, done by previous owner about 6k ago and definitely not slipping.

I drove my NA 1.6L the other day since quite a while and it seems like its pulling much harder than GTI. I know its a much lighter car but it should still feel much slower than the GTi as it has very little torque.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top