203 - Angry Neighbour! - Smoke issue

What I would do is check with the environmental guys as to what they would insist on in checking emissions from a vintage car, and that might be handy if you are a member of a vintage car club, checking on the issue for an article in the club magazine (many members would be interested...) they might be quite on side to arranging a sympathetic test of your car as it is used on the road (properly warmed up of course) If the test is favourable maybe they could issue a clearance.

Unfortunately the reporting process invites false reports or nuisance reports just to subject a person they don't like to compel them to get tested. Many testing places are aware of this problem and malicious people that try and use such reports as punishment so you may find the testing place quite amenable to an upfront approach.

That was what I found out when contacting the Victorian test centre when exploring a complaint that a lazy member was exploiting the reporting system to punish, when there was no reason or problem with the car referred. Quickly sorted out...

Ken
 
Considering that the 'smoke' is white I would say it's definitely steam and that's going to happen all the time on a cold startup because of the condensation inside the engine that gradually heats it's way out. I get a combo of heat and soot with the choke on and it actually leaves a black mark on my floor. Yes I usually only have my choke partially on depending on when it was last started. If I wanted I could drive it slowly away from the place it started even immediately after it fires up, but of course we are all better off warming up before engaging gear if we want the best life for our engines.
The neighbour may not enjoy the noise either and may have already suffered from all the noises involved with the resto process, the initial starting, all the swearing and yelling when things didn't go right and the other smells of beer and whisky that waft over the fence at times and he's probably quite jealous that he hasn't got a life. I had one like that when I was a kid. She was a mad Ukranian woman with serious issues from her very bad war times. She hated hearing us boys tinkering with our bikes and every now and then she'd lean over the fence and call us fu*%ing gypsies, which was apparently a terrible insult. We would tell her to get %%c%ed and she would go up a tone. By the time she was an octave above she would then turn the hose on us.
We would move from the drive to the shed and then a few minutes later , while we were quite oblivious, I would feel heavy breathing over my shoulder and glance round to find Ivan the Terrible, all 6 feet wide and 6 feet tall of him, and he would say 'Danny , One day I fu$%ing kill you.

So I hope you don't get to that stage.
 
James Gelido said:
It's a thin white temperamental smoke, only when warming up. :)
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White smoke would probably indicate glycol coolant burning, so possibly the coolant weeps under the gasket under pressure when the motor is shut down. Are you losing any coolant? This tends to smell sweet out the exhaust. In this case though I would expect it would be blowing white smoke all the time whilst driving.

I would not agree about being able to start it without choke as that would indicate that the fuel mixture would be over rich once the motor has warmed. You should though be able to start pushing the choke in a little after 15 seconds. Certainly if there is black smoke you have too much choke on. Each machine has its idiosyncrasies and we learn these during our custodianship.
 
clip your garden hose to the rear bumper on fine spray ,just above the exhaust all the fumes will be taken up by the spray and water the lawn at the same time ,i dont know if its the covid thing or what ,but driving round here its like, the week before Christmas ,every second driver is aggro or on edge ,
 
Andrew Watkins said:
When something trivial like this is brought up it usually reflects other stuff in the relationship.

The risk is that you will fix the smoke and he will then find something else to complain about and it will go on forever

What is really bugging him and can it be fixed?

Some people are just naturally dicks. Have you or others had other issues with him?

Might also be worth checking that any smoke/emission testing is done under specified conditions( properly warmed up engine) . If so, you may be OK

Good luck. Neighbour disputes can be toxic

Would his body fit in the boot of a 203 or do you need to get a 504.

Andrew
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Excellent! :) I'd have thought the 203 boot would be large enough if you fold him up.

My advice, in line with robmac's thoughts (while not disagreeing with Andrew at all) would be that you should start the car and drive off promptly, so minimising the smoke duration adjacent to him. Both my old Renaults are a wee bit smoky on choke but not otherwise. Chokes are designed to give a rich mixture for starting cold, so smoke happens...

Most neighbour disputes (a common matter in the courts I gather) are about fences - you'd better make sure they are OK by the sound of it...
 
It occurred to me reading of your trials and tribulations that a simple expedient might be to depart the premises of it's storage upon start-up, this putting the engine under load immediately and raising it's temperature to an optimum. Should you be pulled up by any zealous smoke detecting orociffers on your departure, this might indicate that not only your neighbours but the authorities may also have some skin in the game, however in departing quickly you might remove some of the smoke angst from your grumpy neighour!
 
Armidillo said:
Have you experimented with only pulling the choke out part-way? Full choke is appropriate for a frosty morning on the tablelands or in Canberra, but you're apparently in Sydney, and it's not winter yet! If the engine fires and runs on half-choke, then that should be fine.

Regarding the smoke - you say it's white James? That's not down to the rich mixture (which as luthier says gives black smoke), and I think it needs investigating. If it was oil collecting in the cylinders, then it should be blue.

The only causes of white smoke that I can think of would be steam or brake fluid. Water vapour could be perfectly normal on a cold morning - if it is steam then if you put your hand near the end of the exhaust pipe it'll get wet - but could be as sign of a leaking head gasket.

It would be unusual for brake fluid to get into the combustion chamber, but I have a feeling that if you have a booster, then it is possible. The good news is that both water and brake fluid will clean your top end. Pity the engine doesn't have a carbon problem!

Cheers

Alec
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Good point Alec! I just figured to always pull the choke when the engine was cold, guess I was wrong. With smoke, the smoke is only ever during a cold start. Never once warmed up, driving or idling.
 
Beano said:
Part of the issue may be the smell of partially burnt hydrocarbons. I notice it very much whenever I follow a car built in the 70s. Luthier's idea is good, but perhaps you only need a tube which can be plugged on to the exhaust, and leading into a stormwater drain nearby ? That way the fumes will dissipate quite well.
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Thanks Beano!
 
Kenfuego said:
What I would do is check with the environmental guys as to what they would insist on in checking emissions from a vintage car, and that might be handy if you are a member of a vintage car club, checking on the issue for an article in the club magazine (many members would be interested...) they might be quite on side to arranging a sympathetic test of your car as it is used on the road (properly warmed up of course) If the test is favourable maybe they could issue a clearance.

Unfortunately the reporting process invites false reports or nuisance reports just to subject a person they don't like to compel them to get tested. Many testing places are aware of this problem and malicious people that try and use such reports as punishment so you may find the testing place quite amenable to an upfront approach.

That was what I found out when contacting the Victorian test centre when exploring a complaint that a lazy member was exploiting the reporting system to punish, when there was no reason or problem with the car referred. Quickly sorted out...

Ken
Click to expand...

Great! Thanks so much for the informative reply. I was thinking the same thing. They might see the "report" was filled out by our neighbour and think it is just another nuisance report to subject a person. Most likely thinking its a little too convenient. In Queensland,
only If the vehicle is reported 3 times within 4 months of the first sighting, the owner is issued with a Present Vehicle Order for the vehicle to be checked for defects by a transport inspector.

Thanks again for the advice Ken! Much appreciated
 
luthier said:
Considering that the 'smoke' is white I would say it's definitely steam and that's going to happen all the time on a cold startup because of the condensation inside the engine that gradually heats it's way out. I get a combo of heat and soot with the choke on and it actually leaves a black mark on my floor. Yes I usually only have my choke partially on depending on when it was last started. If I wanted I could drive it slowly away from the place it started even immediately after it fires up, but of course we are all better off warming up before engaging gear if we want the best life for our engines.
The neighbour may not enjoy the noise either and may have already suffered from all the noises involved with the resto process, the initial starting, all the swearing and yelling when things didn't go right and the other smells of beer and whisky that waft over the fence at times and he's probably quite jealous that he hasn't got a life. I had one like that when I was a kid. She was a mad Ukranian woman with serious issues from her very bad war times. She hated hearing us boys tinkering with our bikes and every now and then she'd lean over the fence and call us fu*%ing gypsies, which was apparently a terrible insult. We would tell her to get %%c%ed and she would go up a tone. By the time she was an octave above she would then turn the hose on us.
We would move from the drive to the shed and then a few minutes later , while we were quite oblivious, I would feel heavy breathing over my shoulder and glance round to find Ivan the Terrible, all 6 feet wide and 6 feet tall of him, and he would say 'Danny , One day I fu$%ing kill you.

So I hope you don't get to that stage.
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Hahahahhaha, such a great story. Can picture it now 'fu#@k--n Gypsies' hahahaha. I must give it to my neighbour, in his defence, I've had my angle grinder going on at 9pm and he never said a word. Was a once off and i made sure not to do it again, although tempted at times.

Seems the common story here is 'partial choke', so duly noted :)

Cheers Luthier
 
pugwash said:
clip your garden hose to the rear bumper on fine spray ,just above the exhaust all the fumes will be taken up by the spray and water the lawn at the same time ,i dont know if its the covid thing or what ,but driving round here its like, the week before Christmas ,every second driver is aggro or on edge ,
Click to expand...

Cheap and efficent. I much like this suggestion!!! :D

Thanks Pugwash
 
JohnW said:
Excellent! :) I'd have thought the 203 boot would be large enough if you fold him up.

My advice, in line with robmac's thoughts (while not disagreeing with Andrew at all) would be that you should start the car and drive off promptly, so minimising the smoke duration adjacent to him. Both my old Renaults are a wee bit smoky on choke but not otherwise. Chokes are designed to give a rich mixture for starting cold, so smoke happens...

Most neighbour disputes (a common matter in the courts I gather) are about fences - you'd better make sure they are OK by the sound of it...
Click to expand...

Yeh, I think this is much better than having a tit for tat with my neighbour.

Thanks John
 
Kim Luck said:
It occurred to me reading of your trials and tribulations that a simple expedient might be to depart the premises of it's storage upon start-up, this putting the engine under load immediately and raising it's temperature to an optimum. Should you be pulled up by any zealous smoke detecting orociffers on your departure, this might indicate that not only your neighbours but the authorities may also have some skin in the game, however in departing quickly you might remove some of the smoke angst from your grumpy neighour!
Click to expand...

I think so, departing swiftly and having choke partially on. Thanks Kim!
 
A picture of our car port and neighbours proximity to the car port for anyone wondering

96706609_792533871155035_1869338666808115200_n.jpg
96239703_250757269608243_6035246847012896768_n.jpg
 
In order to inflame the situation a friend with a Harley could visit for an overnight stay perhaps. Not actually suggesting this as my other half whinged loudly about a Merc 180 we had a few years ago as from factory that model year 99 one started with a rich mixture that permeated the house with a strong smell. It was duly dispatched for a 508 diesel that was acceptable. The Reno 15 does stink with a choke start and for some reason early morning is mostly breeze free so smells seem to linger in a house. Perhaps turn the 203 around so the exhaust points away from his window. Worth a try.
 
you dont get that smelly LPG smell from his hot water system ?,that flowering tree would benefit from a good watering ,now and again ,
 
If I remember correctly the PB1C carb choke has only two positions, full choke & half choke fast idle. Full choke, one pump on accelerator, start motor , immediately return to half choke, & drive off. Running with choke on full is detrimental for the motor by washing oil off cylinder walls & polluting the oil. Light running until warmed a little is good practice. Sitting with car idling to warm it is old bad practice, the motor will warm far quicker under light load with less wear.
The only external mixture adjustment on the carb, is the idle screw air bleed, & it doesn't substantially affect the running mixture. If the carb is correctly set with correct jets, float level & no air leaks at its base or manifold & valves, ignition timing etc are correct, the car should start without any choke in mild weather. I never needed choke to start my 203 here in Coffs Harbour in normal weather, just the one pump of the accelerator pedal.
Fighting your irascible neighbour is a no win situation. Solve the problem which really shouldn't be there & probably have a better driving car with longer life potential for both you & the car !
Keep having fun,
Richard
 
Far North Kiwi said:
IF WELL tuned it should start WITHOUT choke. Ever since the hard run on the Redex Rerun 2003 I do NOT use the choke to start deliberately to avoid not only the smoke but to keep plugs clean etc. Be sure carbie is full so you arent just cranking to get fuel to it. Clean plugs, strong coil, points & timing correct = easier starting. I now dont use choke on any of my old cars. Its just not good for them. Take the old dude for a ride......he may become a fan. Good luck. Dave
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Yes, don't use the choke much if at all. No valve stem seals were fitted to these engines. For some reason I've found that every time I have had one of these heads rebuilt with new guides it smokes on start up. Never happened with old engines. Actually my 404 does the same thing, rebuilt head but this time it does have seals, a mystery?
 
Start the car and drive away without sitting there warming up. Always best to drive a car from cold straight away, but gently.
 
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