203 - Angry Neighbour! - Smoke issue

James Gelido

James Gelido

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Hi guys,

Got a quick question; so when I start the old girl with the choke on, the car is running quite rich and produces a bit of smoke. It's the second time now my neighbour has complained that there was "too much smoke" and it's too old of a car, "carcinogenic" and fumes are leaking into his house. The car is in a well ventilated car port. I told him that I have every legal right to start my car on my property just as he also starts his car. I said the car is under historical rego and compliant with whatever standards this has. Age of the car is irrelevant.

I'm not going to be bullied every single time I need to start the car, so I thought this time I would stand my ground. He threatened to report me and I told him to go ahead, as I was quite sure there was almost nothing he could do. However, I was looking into it and you can report an overly smokey vehicle through the service NSW website; https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/report-smoky-vehicle

The thing is, the car isn't overly smokey once warmed up and driven, but when I do start it, the mixture is quite rich and does produce some smoke.

Just wondering if any has had a similar experience, whether my neighbour has any legal grounding and if a historic car can be defected or advised upon for something it naturally does?

Cheers fellas,

James
 
The smoke is probably oil being burned on top of the pistons after standing for a while this is caused be poor or no valve stem seals.
 
James Gelido said:
Hi guys,

Got a quick question; so when I start the old girl with the choke on, the car is running quite rich and produces a bit of smoke. It's the second time now my neighbour has complained that there was "too much smoke" and it's too old of a car, "carcinogenic" and fumes are leaking into his house. The car is in a well ventilated car port. I told him that I have every legal right to start my car on my property just as he also starts his car. I said the car is under historical rego and compliant with whatever standards this has. Age of the car is irrelevant.

I'm not going to be bullied every single time I need to start the car, so I thought this time I would stand my ground. He threatened to report me and I told him to go ahead, as I was quite sure there was almost nothing he could do. However, I was looking into it and you can report an overly smokey vehicle through the service NSW website; https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/report-smoky-vehicle

The thing is, the car isn't overly smokey once warmed up and driven, but when I do start it, the mixture is quite rich and does produce some smoke.

Just wondering if any has had a similar experience, whether my neighbour has any legal grounding and if a historic car can be defected or advised upon for something it naturally does?

Cheers fellas,

James
Click to expand...

IMO It's probably easier to fix the over rich problem than engage in World war three with your neighbor
 
I doubt it would be a poor valve stem seals, it is a brand new build with all new seals, valves, rings etc. The only thing it might be is the fuel/air mixture but even then, I know the car will naturally emit smoke when it's started with choke on, and it will give him something to complain about.

I'm trying to keep the peace and avoid a WW, haha, but at the same time, I know his mentality; old = bad for health. No matter what I do, he won't be happy until the car is gone. If you had met my neighbour, you would know I'm not being unreasonable :mallet:Is the "report" something to worry about?
 
When something trivial like this is brought up it usually reflects other stuff in the relationship.

The risk is that you will fix the smoke and he will then find something else to complain about and it will go on forever

What is really bugging him and can it be fixed?

Some people are just naturally dicks. Have you or others had other issues with him?

Might also be worth checking that any smoke/emission testing is done under specified conditions( properly warmed up engine) . If so, you may be OK

Good luck. Neighbour disputes can be toxic

Would his body fit in the boot of a 203 or do you need to get a 504.

Andrew
 
James Gelido said:
I doubt it would be a poor valve stem seals, it is a brand new build with all new seals, valves, rings etc. The only thing it might be is the fuel/air mixture but even then, I know the car will naturally emit smoke when it's started with choke on, and it will give him something to complain about.

I'm trying to keep the peace and avoid a WW, haha, but at the same time, I know his mentality; old = bad for health. No matter what I do, he won't be happy until the car is gone. If you had met my neighbour, you would know I'm not being unreasonable :mallet:Is the "report" something to worry about?
Click to expand...

James, when one is aging and locked at home, any opportunity to interact may seem a good option.

People like this can react poorly to the "f-off approach (although some times it maybe what they deserve.)

Sadly, keeping peace with neighbors can be quite a challenge. I'd commend to you a softly softly approach will generally achieve the best result.
 
Andrew Watkins said:
When something trivial like this is brought up it usually reflects other stuff in the relationship.

The risk is that you will fix the smoke and he will then find something else to complain about and it will go on forever

What is really bugging him and can it be fixed?

Some people are just naturally dicks. Have you or others had other issues with him?

Might also be worth checking that any smoke/emission testing is done under specified conditions( properly warmed up engine) . If so, you may be OK

Good luck. Neighbour disputes can be toxic

Would his body fit in the boot of a 203 or do you need to get a 504.

Andrew
Click to expand...


Thanks Andrew,

The 203 boot IS quite spacious :dance: hahahaha.

In all seriousness, he always has something to complain about. He is just one of those personality types. It is my parents house, so I might have to move the car, although I live in an apartment complex and I have no garage to work on it here.

Nothing to do with pride, but, I just know, if I do end up moving the car, he will think his pesterance has achieved what he wanted and will look at something else to pester about, until again, he gets his way. This will be very problematic.

I think I'll have to look into the smoke testing and try get something certified, that is the best option to protect myself at the moment.

Cheers again for the feedback Andrew :)
 
Last edited:
robmac said:
James, when one is aging and locked at home, any opportunity to interact may seem a good option.

People like this can react poorly to the "f-off approach (although some times it maybe what they deserve.)

Sadly, keeping peace with neighbors can be quite a challenge. I'd commend to you a softly softly approach will generally achieve the best result.
Click to expand...

Agreed Rob. I have tried the soft approach, and those that know me well, know that I am quite accomodating. However, his resolution was to push the car up the driveway away from his windows when I start the car. Unfortunately, I'm not the worlds strongest man and can't push a 1 tonne car, 10m uphill by myself.

I'll try research my rights in the meantime, whether my car is at risk of a defect (not generating much but slight smoke when started) and a way to get something on paper that it is certified, that is if 'Historic Rego' isn't enough.

Cheers Rob.
 
Do we even know what colour this smoke is? My car does both colours if not started for awhile probably because the dicks who did my head [Unlimited Head Jobs in Ashfield] didn't do the right thing with my valves as they didn't do with my welsh plugs necessitating another head removal to fix their stuffup. I don't think they bothered to fit seals on the valve stems at all.
It's been this way from the beginning and gets a little worse with age. But the black smoke happens when the choke is out and until the engine warms up and I don't think there's anything that can be done about that. Maybe if you drive out before it warms up and let it do it's thing down the end of the street you might alleviate your neighbour's anxiety.
He obviously has a very badly sealed house to be getting fumes in there. You could annoy him by telling him that a leaking house is bad for the environment as well.
Another option might be to have a temporary pipe on your exhaust that feeds into a filtered drum to catch all that shit while it warms up. You could use a 44gallon drum filled with insulation batts with inlet from the car and outlet into a hole behind your workshop. Then you could kill all your weeds and everything else with toxic petroleum instead of roundup.
 
Hi James , I agree with Luthiers approach and symphasise with your dilema , One day the Morgan ended with cement in a the tank !!,
It is kept in a carport close to neighbours bedroom , like you I dont drive straight off from start, and do try to keep it to a minimum.

in jest , Can you borrow a noisy motorbike and tell him you are thinking of swapping it for the car ?
 
As others have said - the "f off!" approach is unlikely to be productive with the cranky old bloke.

I wonder if this - NSW Community Justice Centres - might be worth exploring?

Quoting from their website: " Community Justice Centres (CJC) provide free mediation to help people solve disagreements (or resolve disputes) without going to court."

And this interesting stat from their website:

"Frequency of dispute types (highest to lowest)

  • Neighbours
  • Business
  • Social
  • Family
  • Spouse/Partner
  • Workplace
  • Organisation/club/association
  • Landlord/tenant "


I've worked as a mediator and have seen the value of parties to a dispute being able to speak and be heard in an environment that avoids confrontation.

Not a guaranteed solution - but maybe worth a try (before the midnight cement in the fuel tank!)?

Ian
 
IF WELL tuned it should start WITHOUT choke. Ever since the hard run on the Redex Rerun 2003 I do NOT use the choke to start deliberately to avoid not only the smoke but to keep plugs clean etc. Be sure carbie is full so you arent just cranking to get fuel to it. Clean plugs, strong coil, points & timing correct = easier starting. I now dont use choke on any of my old cars. Its just not good for them. Take the old dude for a ride......he may become a fan. Good luck. Dave
 
luthier said:
Do we even know what colour this smoke is? My car does both colours if not started for awhile probably because the dicks who did my head [Unlimited Head Jobs in Ashfield] didn't do the right thing with my valves as they didn't do with my welsh plugs necessitating another head removal to fix their stuffup. I don't think they bothered to fit seals on the valve stems at all.
It's been this way from the beginning and gets a little worse with age. But the black smoke happens when the choke is out and until the engine warms up and I don't think there's anything that can be done about that. Maybe if you drive out before it warms up and let it do it's thing down the end of the street you might alleviate your neighbour's anxiety.
He obviously has a very badly sealed house to be getting fumes in there. You could annoy him by telling him that a leaking house is bad for the environment as well.
Another option might be to have a temporary pipe on your exhaust that feeds into a filtered drum to catch all that shit while it warms up. You could use a 44gallon drum filled with insulation batts with inlet from the car and outlet into a hole behind your workshop. Then you could kill all your weeds and everything else with toxic petroleum instead of roundup.
Click to expand...

It's a thin white temperamental smoke, only when warming up. Shame about your Head Job, I now know where NOT to go to.

Is it okay to reverse a few metres when engine is completely cold? If so, this could possibly be an option?

He has an asbestos built house, classic 60's style. Pretty under-maintained if you ask me. 44 gallon drum would be a good idea!

Legend :)
 
alpine said:
Hi James , I agree with Luthiers approach and symphasise with your dilema , One day the Morgan ended with cement in a the tank !!,
It is kept in a carport close to neighbours bedroom , like you I dont drive straight off from start, and do try to keep it to a minimum.

in jest , Can you borrow a noisy motorbike and tell him you are thinking of swapping it for the car ?
Click to expand...

Unbelievable what people will actually do to prove a point. Sorry to hear that mate. Dreadful. The carport is somewhat close to his backroom but not his bedroom.
 
IWS said:
As others have said - the "f off!" approach is unlikely to be productive with the cranky old bloke.

I wonder if this - NSW Community Justice Centres - might be worth exploring?

Quoting from their website: " Community Justice Centres (CJC) provide free mediation to help people solve disagreements (or resolve disputes) without going to court."

And this interesting stat from their website:

"Frequency of dispute types (highest to lowest)

  • Neighbours
  • Business
  • Social
  • Family
  • Spouse/Partner
  • Workplace
  • Organisation/club/association
  • Landlord/tenant "


I've worked as a mediator and have seen the value of parties to a dispute being able to speak and be heard in an environment that avoids confrontation.

Not a guaranteed solution - but maybe worth a try (before the midnight cement in the fuel tank!)?

Ian
Click to expand...

Good point and great advice. Will be looking into it.

Thanks :)
 
Far North Kiwi said:
IF WELL tuned it should start WITHOUT choke. Ever since the hard run on the Redex Rerun 2003 I do NOT use the choke to start deliberately to avoid not only the smoke but to keep plugs clean etc. Be sure carbie is full so you arent just cranking to get fuel to it. Clean plugs, strong coil, points & timing correct = easier starting. I now dont use choke on any of my old cars. Its just not good for them. Take the old dude for a ride......he may become a fan. Good luck. Dave
Click to expand...

Interesting, I've tried to tune the carbie best I could by ear but is there a correct method to tuning a PBIC Solex. I heard 1 and a Half turn from the screw full in and then tune from there?

Unfortunately, I very much doubt he would be interested in a ride. He is pretty hostile as it is, and would probably think a ride in it would expose him to cancer.
 
Have you experimented with only pulling the choke out part-way? Full choke is appropriate for a frosty morning on the tablelands or in Canberra, but you're apparently in Sydney, and it's not winter yet! If the engine fires and runs on half-choke, then that should be fine.

Regarding the smoke - you say it's white James? That's not down to the rich mixture (which as luthier says gives black smoke), and I think it needs investigating. If it was oil collecting in the cylinders, then it should be blue.

The only causes of white smoke that I can think of would be steam or brake fluid. Water vapour could be perfectly normal on a cold morning - if it is steam then if you put your hand near the end of the exhaust pipe it'll get wet - but could be as sign of a leaking head gasket.

It would be unusual for brake fluid to get into the combustion chamber, but I have a feeling that if you have a booster, then it is possible. The good news is that both water and brake fluid will clean your top end. Pity the engine doesn't have a carbon problem!

Cheers

Alec
 
Part of the issue may be the smell of partially burnt hydrocarbons. I notice it very much whenever I follow a car built in the 70s. Luthier's idea is good, but perhaps you only need a tube which can be plugged on to the exhaust, and leading into a stormwater drain nearby ? That way the fumes will dissipate quite well.
 
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