1959 4cv Restoration in North Carolina USA

[Aln]

I would have no problems using the new old stock bearings in a 4CV. I have used them before and found there was some oxidation on the surfaces. I removed this with a worn out Scotch Brite pad. Motor is still running fine many years later. There are some “race” bearings produced for certain engines that may have better materials, but clearancing is also different with these bearings.

 

[schlitzaugen]

This brings up the question: Do crankshaft bearings have a shelf life? Someone said the lead can corrode, but that's just one person's opinion. I have not found any good information on the subject. And another question: Are bearings made in the 60s or 70s better, worse, or as good as current production replacement bearings?

Pure lead oxidises exposed to air/water/what have you but in an alloy it's a different matter. I would have a look for corrosion like Alan said and maybe a quick measure/test fit and if everything checks out why not use them?

 

[jaahn]

This brings up the question: Do crankshaft bearings have a shelf life? Someone said the lead can corrode, but that's just one person's opinion. I have not found any good information on the subject. And another question: Are bearings made in the 60s or 70s better, worse, or as good as current production replacement bearings?

Hi Stan
I am not being critical here but once again you are over-thinking this !! Just look at them and if they look good go with them, or if they need a scrub with a brillo pad do that. Gees lead was used on church roofs for hundreds of years and the biggest problem was thieves stealing it
It is used in solder in electrical items and still keeps going. Actually it is an alloy so that changes the situation but really just use them where ever they were made.
It is true that there is a lot of crap made in China now a days so you might look carefully at modern stuff more than older stuff. They might use poor quality recycled metals and poor quality 'production' methods EG a man working in the back yard. Hmm we hope the good name suppliers check this out.
Jaahn

 

[schlitzaugen]

I think more important than anything else is to check the size fits.

 

[Stan W]

Yes, I am overthinking it That's what happens when I have to wait for the machine shop, wait to order parts, etc. I am ready to build an engine! It may even be better to use the NOS ones. The machine shop said I need new valves and guides. Ordered valves at a very good price on Ebay. I don't have a proper light switch yet, but I have the lights working and installed 12v bulbs in the instrument cluster. I finished making my radiator cardboards. I used light foam board.

I am going to make a radio delete plate. Does anyone have a really good picture of one without distortion? I will make a decal from a good picture, apply it to a clear acrylic plate, then give it several coats of clear.

 

[jaahn]

Hi Stan
Sounds good !
Now my question is in regards to the speedo numbers and gauge markings. How are you going to accurately reproduce the wonky distorted transfers that were always on the glass when I owned them back in the days they were current. I always thought they were put on after a long liquid lunch by the French workers My mates always laughed at them.
Jaahn

 

[Stan W]

I was lucky, don't really need new numbers. I think someone makes a decal, but it would probably be in Kph. Seeing the dash lights working makes me feel like I'm making progress. You can see the hood of a slightly faster car in the picture.

 

[Stan W]

How much horsepower does this add?
Don't forget to account for all the factors:
1. It's really cool.
2. It's really shiny.
3. It has fins.
4. Made of aluminum
5. Costs more than the sheet metal cover - makes the wallet lighter.

Does it make a difference which way the writing on the cap faces?

Still looking for a good picture of the 4cv radio delete plate.

 

[FIVEDOOR]

Not only does it make the wallet lighter, but the weight of the chrome makes the engine heavier, thus negating any benefit from the lighter wallet and in fact is quite likely to increase engine weight to the extent that the car will not be able to pull the steam off the rice pudding.


On a more serious note, good work.

 

[boleropilot]

So why is there a picture of a golf course here? That was taken from my back porch which is on a hill overlooking holes 10 and 18 on the golf course surrounding our neighborhood. My wife is not keen on driving the 4cv outside the neighborhood due to the "single fully integrated crumple zone" of the 4cv. The golf course here is inexpensive to join, and the owner has already given me permission to use the 4cv as a golf cart. With two passengers (not heavy ones), the 4cv weighs the same as a fully loaded two person electric golf cart.

I am getting this thread caught up to the present point, so there will be a few more posts before we get to the current state. My next task was to get the engine compartment cleaned and ready for finish paint. This has to be done before anything goes back together. The rear of the car had been hit, which mangled the rear panel. It had be fixed poorly and had to be remedied before painting the engine compartment. It took a week of hammer and dolly work along with welding to get it straight. I could have bought a new one, but shipping would be expensive. The entire panel needed a skim coat of filler and then primer surfacer.

you, Sir, are going to have the worlds most beautiful and exotic golf cart...

 

[JohnW]

How much horsepower does this add?
View attachment 129705 Don't forget to account for all the factors:
1. It's really cool.
2. It's really shiny.
3. It has fins.
4. Made of aluminum
5. Costs more than the sheet metal cover - makes the wallet lighter.

Does it make a difference which way the writing on the cap faces?

Still looking for a good picture of the 4cv radio delete plate.

Best of all, they don't leak...... No distortion like the mild steel ones if they are slightly overtightened.

 

[JohnW]

Yes, I am overthinking it That's what happens when I have to wait for the machine shop, wait to order parts, etc. I am ready to build an engine! It may even be better to use the NOS ones. The machine shop said I need new valves and guides. Ordered valves at a very good price on Ebay. I don't have a proper light switch yet, but I have the lights working and installed 12v bulbs in the instrument cluster. I finished making my radiator cardboards. I used light foam board.

I am going to make a radio delete plate. Does anyone have a really good picture of one without distortion? I will make a decal from a good picture, apply it to a clear acrylic plate, then give it several coats of clear.

View attachment 129686

Regarding valve guides, the engine shops I've used in recent years in Western Australia (overhauling cylinder heads that now sit in my cupboard) don't replace guides but actually sleeve them in bronze and bore them to the exact size for the valve stems. I've no idea how they get this done but it seems to work.
The reason for overhauling the heads is of course expensive insurance to ensure I don't need them....

 

[JohnW]

I was lucky, don't really need new numbers. I think someone makes a decal, but it would probably be in Kph. Seeing the dash lights working makes me feel like I'm making progress. You can see the hood of a slightly faster car in the picture.

View attachment 129691

Just slightly faster.......

 

[schlitzaugen]

Regarding valve guides, the engine shops I've used in recent years in Western Australia (overhauling cylinder heads that now sit in my cupboard) don't replace guides but actually sleeve them in bronze and bore them to the exact size for the valve stems. I've no idea how they get this done but it seems to work.
The reason for overhauling the heads is of course expensive insurance to ensure I don't need them....

Yep, but if you want they can replace the guides.

The old guides are drilled, and insert is pressed in. This insert is then drilled with a diamond drill or bored to ensure straightness and then reamed to size.

Nice things those tiny little diamond boring bars.

 

[schlitzaugen]

How much horsepower does this add?
View attachment 129705 Don't forget to account for all the factors:
1. It's really cool.
2. It's really shiny.
3. It has fins.
4. Made of aluminum
5. Costs more than the sheet metal cover - makes the wallet lighter.

Does it make a difference which way the writing on the cap faces?

Still looking for a good picture of the 4cv radio delete plate.

What is a radio delete plate?

 

[COL]

What is a radio delete plate?

Its the plate that goes over where a radio would be installed, to fill the hole in the dash

 

[JohnW]

Yep, but if you want they can replace the guides.

The old guides are drilled, and insert is pressed in. This insert is then drilled with a diamond drill or bored to ensure straightness and then reamed to size.

Nice things those tiny little diamond boring bars.

With old alloy heads, there's no doubt they get quite nervous pressing out old guides. I don't blame them. I love the precision reaming.

 

[JohnW]

How much horsepower does this add?
View attachment 129705 Don't forget to account for all the factors:
1. It's really cool.
2. It's really shiny.
3. It has fins.
4. Made of aluminum
5. Costs more than the sheet metal cover - makes the wallet lighter.

Does it make a difference which way the writing on the cap faces?

Still looking for a good picture of the 4cv radio delete plate.

You might do better with the bigger fins.

 

[schlitzaugen]

With old alloy heads, there's no doubt they get quite nervous pressing out old guides. I don't blame them. I love the precision reaming.

I think they heat the entire head a bit to expand the holes and then push the guides out.

I remember watching a doco on the Ferrari factory and they showed the robot inserting the valve guides. They were dipped in liquid nitrogen to shrink before insertion.

I have a little 3mm six flute spiral hand reamer. I know in theory how it's made but still can't believe it is possible. But the precision comes from having a straight bore to begin with because reamers don't straighten out a corkscrew hole, they follow it. A boring bar will cut a straight hole no matter what. Or it will break.

 

[Sunroof]

John wouldn't heating the head make the holes smaller as the head expands into the holes?? I have been trying to drill a large deep hole through cast steel and when about half way through the metal heats up and expands into the hole and jambs the drill until it has cooled down again.