C5 - SX vs Exclusive?

Armidillo

Armidillo

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Curse you GoDaddy! I remember that, prior to the crash, there were extensive threads on C5s, with detailed analysis of the differences between models, particularly in that confusing period from the introduction of the facelift until the X7 arrived. Although there have been many C5-related threads since then, I am struggling to find clear info on the differences between models - esp. 2005 -2007. If I have missed relevant threads then a link would be appreciated :).

My understanding is that the Exclusive has Hydractive 3+ - functionally equivalent to a Xantia VSX (plus turning headlights and other nice-to-have features). Is the improvement in ride/handling in the Exclusive worth the extra complexity (& cost)? I know that hydraulics in the C5s are generally very reliable - is this also true of the H3+?

Most C5s from that era are advertised as 'SX', but is this just because people don't know any better? For example are all 2.2 litre HDis Exclusives?

Also, re. the 2.2 HDi motors - earlier ones had 4 speed box (4HP20?), later has the same 6-speed Aisin box as the 2.0 litre motor - correct? Are these 2.2 litre motors different, or is it just the transmission that changes? And do the 2.2 motors offer any advantage over the 2 litre?

Re. transmissions, as I understand it, the 4HP20 is better than the AL4, with the 6-speed best of all. However there seem to have been a lot Pug 406 V6 owners looking for replacement boxes - is the 4HP20 really much better than the AL4?

OK - probably too many questions in one post, but hopefully we can gather some relevant info on the pre X7 C5s into one place.

Cheers

Alec
 
Potted summary looking at the diesels only ...

1) 2001-early 2005 2.0 HDi DW10 4 speed auto (AL4) VIN contains RHZ. No particle filter. Not all have Hydractive suspension, notable earlier cars which often had cloth trim. Leather and fake wood dash became common and almost standard later on to make them more appealing, but there are quite a few differences between cars. The AL4 isn't such a bad thing and some are still going strong at 300 or 400K. Others fell over well under 100K. If the gearbox is suspect to the point that it can't be lived with as is, expect a large repair bill if you have to farm out the repair.

2) Early 2005 to 2006: Facelift introduced with new dash. 2.2 HDi DW12 SINGLE turbo, 4 speed auto (ZF 4HP20). VIN contains 4HX. Has a particle filter. Xenon headlamps were an unusual option. These were SX level cars with black strips on the sides and bumpers, but almost always have leather trim and options. I like these, but like the AL4, they tend to hang on to 3rd at times around town. Wagons are not proper Hyrdactive as far as I know and I think the hatch also missed out - look for the extra spheres to confirm. They don't have an anti-sink sphere as the electric pump does that job.

3) 2006 to 2007/8. 2 new engines and a 6 speed auto introduced. All cars have a particle filter.
3A) 2.0 HDi DW10B 6 speed auto AM6 (aka AW TF80SC). VIN contains RHR. Probably the pick of the range as hatch or wagon.
3B) 2.2 HDi DW12B TWIN turbo, 6 speed auto AM6 (aka AW TF80SC). VIN contains 4HS
All of these cars had turning Xenon headlamps, colour coded bumper/door inserts, invariable had leather trim with electric adjustment and many had a sunroof. I think all had proper Hydractive suspension, but I may be wrong. Not badged as Exclusive as far as I can recall, but they are well specified anyway.

4) 2008 on X7 series. 2.0HDi DW10B with 6 speed AM6 is initially the main product sold here. Vin contains RHR. Late 2010 saw DW10C introduced and VIN changes.
 
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Thanks David - a great help in getting my head around it all! You comment that 3A, the 2 litre/6 speed auto is "pick of the range". Are some of them true hydractive, or is the basic hydraulic suspension so good that there's no need to worry?

Does anyone have experience (good or bad) with the twin turbo 2.1 HDi (DW12B)?

Cheers

Alec
 
Armidillo said:
Thanks David - a great help in getting my head around it all! You comment that 3A, the 2 litre/6 speed auto is "pick of the range". Are some of them true hydractive, or is the basic hydraulic suspension so good that there's no need to worry?

Does anyone have experience (good or bad) with the twin turbo 2.1 HDi (DW12B)?

Cheers

Alec
Click to expand...

For marketing, they are all called Hydractive, but some are not. Look for the extra sphere at each end, most easily seen at the back in the centre. Piping is heavier too. I don't think you will miss out on much by not having the extra spheres as having only one at each corner seems to give a softer ride.

I'd made a typo re the 2.1 - now fixed. It was meant to be 2.2. Same size as the earlier 2.2 with 4 speeds, but it has twin turbos and is mated to the 6 speed auto. They are good cars indeed, but the 2.0 HDi is perhaps a little less gruff if that makes any sense.
 
I can certainly recommend the 2.0 HDI 6speed as the pick of the bunch, I did Brisbane-Canberra atChristmas with just a little over one tank of fuel. Arrived there as if I'd driven only for a couple of hours. Excellent cruising car, although the suspension is still too firm for a Citroen. Hydractive+ seems to lose a bit of confort on rough roads as it tends to stiffen the suspension. But all in all, for the money, nothing much comes near it. Go for it!
 
I have a 2007 2.0 HDI BVA6 SX Wagon, which means it's the 2.0 diesel with 100 KW and the 6-speed gearbox. Even though mine isn't an exclusive, I have a hard time finding something that is different on my SX (Vin starts with RHR). It has a sunroof, colour coded bumper and door inserts, electric leather seats, turning Xenon headlights and Hydractive + suspension for as far as I can see.

I used to have a 2004 2.0 HDI BVA4 Wagon in Europe, which was the 81 KW with the 4-speed gearbox and that served me very well for 160,000 km which was when we left for Australia so we had to let it go. That's the car that got me hooked on C5's, after also having had a BX and 2 DS's.

Good luck with the search.
 
Thanks everyone - the mists are clearing :).

Thanks David - I was aware that "Hydractive 3" was non-hydractive, and only "Hydractive 3 Plus" was a true hydractive system - where I was going wrong was assuming that "SX" means the same in a C5 as it does in Xantias.

A bit of time spent on Citroen's Service Box site last night (using VIN numbers cribbed from on-line car sales sites) proved me completely wrong - in fact I didn't find a single non-hydractive car, although there were various other differences, such as headlights. One disappointment - not one car that I checked had heated seats according to Service box :confused: .

So BAS, I'll probably look for something very similar to what you have (although we'll probably be happy with a hatch).

Would still love to hear from owners of twin turbo 2.2l cars, but I suspect that long-term happiness lies with the more common and less complex 2.0l single turbo engine (with AM6 of course).

Cheers

Alec
 
Hi Alec,

Just wondering why you want heated seats? Does it get that cold in Armidale?? We used to have a Saab 900 with heated seats and I think we used them once only to check if they were working. My C5 sleeps outside and it warms up very quickly after I start it so I wouldn't see the need for heated seats. If you'd be living in Sweden or something and the temps drop to below -20, yes it makes perfect sense. Anyway, everyone is different so good luck with the search!!
 
Yeah it only drops to -10 Celcius here, so I suppose I'm being a wuss! Have you ever had to use a credit card to scrape the ice off your windscreen when it's -5 or lower? Not in Sydney I suspect!

Cheers

Alec
 
Having to scrape ice off the windscreen might lead to the wiper blades failing earlier than they would otherwise. They are quite expensive, particularly the pedestrian friendly ones introduced with the facelifted cars. With a Xantia or XM/605, you can buy the $5 wiper inserts, but it doesn't work that way with the C5 and you have to plan ahead a bit or pay rather more than you are probably used to!
 
If you re-read my earlier post, it says I lived in Europe before... My "old" C5 was always parked outside so every morning for 4 Months of the year I had to de-ice my windows. So been there, done that, one of the reasons for moving to Sydney!! I gave my de-icing blade (with padded glove) to my dad just before we left. So trust me, I understand your problem. But I never had an issue with cold seats because I'd start the car before I start de-icing, put the heating to the highest setting and by the time I'd be finished de-icing the car and seats would be warm :burnboun:
 
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