Missing tailshaft spring --404 hypoid diff
  • Help
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    389

    Default Missing tailshaft spring --404 hypoid diff

    I need the spring that sits in the rear of the tailshaft ( pushes against the input shaft of 404 wagon hypoid diff).
    Don't have a sample or know the length of spring????
    Any informed advice would be appreciated...spring length, diameter; alternatives or sources for a replacement spring!

    Thanks in advance

    Advertisement


    John

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bahay View Post
    I need the spring that sits in the rear of the tailshaft ( pushes against the input shaft of 404 wagon hypoid diff).
    Don't have a sample or know the length of spring????
    Any informed advice would be appreciated...spring length, diameter; alternatives or sources for a replacement spring!

    Thanks in advance

    John
    I lost one too and subsequently found it - I'll have a hunt to find it again (I need a spare) and measure it up.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Thanks Rob...look forward to your reply.

    John

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bahay View Post
    Thanks Rob...look forward to your reply.

    John
    Hi John,

    For the life of me I can't find the spring. I'll just have to keep looking .

    I assume you mean Worm Diff, ie Sedan, not later wagon with the hypoid?

    cheers

    Rob

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    389

    Default hypoid

    Hi Rob,
    It's actually a 404 wagon diff and torque tube I'm playing with this time. The spring will probably be the same/ very similar to the sedan/worm arrangement though.

    I pulled an inner valve spring off acylinder head and although it 'looks' okay, it's too long, too many coils, slightly thick 'wire' and probably too small in overall diameter.
    If anything turns up let me know...Thanks again

    John

  6. #6
    Member Grenouille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NSW, Aust
    Posts
    115

    Default

    I have one JB,

    do you really want me to go out in the rain to measure it? or are you under control now?


    G.

  7. #7
    Member Grenouille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NSW, Aust
    Posts
    115

    Default

    ok - it was a good excuse to go figure out where it was -

    =
    20 x 2mm wire - 34 oal x 6 coils

    rgds
    G.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Missing tailshaft spring --404 hypoid diff-2011-05-25-404-worm-diff-001.jpg  

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    2,705

    Default

    Somewhere in the windmills of my mind I recall that spring being identical to a 404 valve spring?
    Grenouilles measurements will prove me wrong no doubt.

    Oops, sorry you are talking about hypoid diff. Possibility it may be the same as worm diff. Peugeot can be like that.
    Last edited by Wildebeest; 25th May 2011 at 01:59 PM. Reason: stuff

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Somewhere in the windmills of my mind I recall that spring being identical to a 404 valve spring?
    Grenouilles measurements will prove me wrong no doubt.

    Oops, sorry you are talking about hypoid diff. Possibility it may be the same as worm diff. Peugeot can be like that.
    504 TI inner spring is: (I don't have a 404 spring off a car)

    Wire Diameter 2.8 mm
    Free Length 39mm
    Turns (inc ground ends) 9
    OD 20.2MM

    So quite possibly a 404 inner spring is a suitable replacement

  10. #10
    Member Grenouille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NSW, Aust
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Almost ditto Robmac,-

    404 inner valve spring =
    Wire Diameter 2.75 mm
    Free Length 40.5mm
    Turns (inc ground ends) 9
    OD 20.0MM

    very close to the 504,-

    the compression on the valve spring compared to the diff spiring is roughly 1 - 3
    IE: when the diff spring is fully compressed the valve spring is only compressed approx 1/3rd of its free length.

    sorry i dont have anything to measure that tension for you accurately.

    see pic

    G.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Missing tailshaft spring --404 hypoid diff-404_wd%7Ein_valve.jpg  

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grenouille View Post
    Almost ditto Robmac,-

    404 inner valve spring =
    Wire Diameter 2.75 mm
    Free Length 40.5mm
    Turns (inc ground ends) 9
    OD 20.0MM

    very close to the 504,-

    the compression on the valve spring compared to the diff spiring is roughly 1 - 3
    IE: when the diff spring is fully compressed the valve spring is only compressed approx 1/3rd of its free length.

    sorry i dont have anything to measure that tension for you accurately.

    see pic

    G.
    Coil Spring Rate Formula:

    11,250,000 - Torsional Modules For Steel (Constant)

    CSPWD - Coil Spring Wire Diameter (How thick is the wire?)

    8 - Constant

    NOAC - Number Of Active Coils (Coils that are free to move. Not coils seated. It may be that 1/2 of the top and bottom coil is seated causing a spring with 8 coils to have the distance of 7 free.)

    CMD - Coil Mean Diameter (The diameter from center to center of the coil. Measure the diameter of the coil from wire center to wire center. If you know the coil is .5 inches thick and the outside diameter of the coil spring is 3 inches, then the Coil Mean Diameter would be 2.5 inches)

    (11,250,000 x (CSWD x 4))
    ----------------------------------
    (8 x NOAC x (CMD x 3))

    All Measurements in inches -

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    404 Valve spring = 30.5 lbs/inch


    404 Prop Shaft spring = 18.75 lbs/inch


    18.5 / 30.5 = 0.6 near enough to 2/3 !

  12. #12
    Member Grenouille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NSW, Aust
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Jb,
    You've got to be happy with that!!




    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Coil Spring Rate Formula:

    11,250,000 - Torsional Modules For Steel (Constant)

    CSPWD - Coil Spring Wire Diameter (How thick is the wire?)

    8 - Constant

    NOAC - Number Of Active Coils (Coils that are free to move. Not coils seated. It may be that 1/2 of the top and bottom coil is seated causing a spring with 8 coils to have the distance of 7 free.)

    CMD - Coil Mean Diameter (The diameter from center to center of the coil. Measure the diameter of the coil from wire center to wire center. If you know the coil is .5 inches thick and the outside diameter of the coil spring is 3 inches, then the Coil Mean Diameter would be 2.5 inches)

    (11,250,000 x (CSWD x 4))
    ----------------------------------
    (8 x NOAC x (CMD x 3))

    All Measurements in inches -

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    404 Valve spring = 30.5 lbs/inch


    404 Prop Shaft spring = 18.75 lbs/inch


    18.5 / 30.5 = 0.6 near enough to 2/3 !

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    rob, i get the formula as written, but i dont get the same numbers when i use it.

    for the 404 valve spring i used
    wire diameter .10826" ie 2.75mm
    mean coil diameter .67913" ie 17.27mm (ie 20mm - 2.75mm)
    number of turns 8

    that gives..
    11,250,000 x 0.10826^4
    -----------------------------
    8 x 8 x 0.67913^3

    = 1544.625
    ------------
    20.0465

    = 77 lbs/inch
    I used a java calculator on the website. I'm really not sufficiently interested to analyse the code behind the app.

    Either of us have the potential to make a data entry/ calculation slip.

    Let's just says your calcs are correct

  14. #14
    Member Grenouille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NSW, Aust
    Posts
    115

    Default

    SO.......

    I think from this JB

    there is no hope in hell you can substitute that spring or you'll have all of us chasing you down the street pointing out that the diff in your car sounds like the "thrust spring" has too much tension!!


  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    sydney, australia
    Posts
    11,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I
    Let's just says your calcs are correct
    ok no problem. i deleted my post. just thought it might have been relevant to the discussion.
    Last edited by alexander; 26th May 2011 at 03:28 AM.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    389

    Default Thank you everyone

    Thanks ..... I was tied up yesterday and didn't get back to A/F.......
    Then BINGO! A most comprehensive discussion......it's amazing how a small inquiry can stimulate such a full explanation!
    It's much appreciated...

    now to find a spring armed with the correct info , calipers in hand.
    Cheers

    John

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Phil Whitton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bargo Sthn Highlands NSW
    Posts
    273

    Default sprong ..... sprong

    sprong....thats the sound as the spring sprongs across the workshop floor to lodge a t the furthest most point under the heaviest piece of machinery/bench.

    OK I found one......... complete with ORIGINAL grease.....
    yours for the collection whenever.....
    ciao

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Whitton View Post
    sprong....thats the sound as the spring sprongs across the workshop floor to lodge a t the furthest most point under the heaviest piece of machinery/bench.

    OK I found one......... complete with ORIGINAL grease.....
    yours for the collection whenever.....
    ciao
    Ah Dr Phil....you've always got 'that missing part' on hand it seems....
    Many thanks...will catch up again soon.

    Cheers

    John

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •