Leading/trailing shoes- which is which?
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    Fellow Frogger! neural revolt's Avatar
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    Default Leading/trailing shoes- which is which?

    I've just replaced the rear brake shoes on my Virage and am now having a seniors moment

    I'm not sure which is the leading shoe and which is the trailing shoe. The new shoes have about 3/4 of the shoe covered in lining material; one shoe has most of the material at the "top" (wheel cylinder end) and the other has most of the lining at the "bottom" (pivot end).

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    The length of lining material is the same on all shoes and this is what's confusing me.

    The old shoes had more lining material on the leading shoe than the trailing, so was easy to identify.

    Now I assumed that the shoe with most material to the top would be the leading shoe, but for the life of me, I can't remember why, or if I am even correct.

    Mal
    Past Frogs:
    Alpine White 1967 R10 (round eye)
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    Default Shoes

    went looking for my old clymers manuel recaled a conversation with my wife as to why we needed to keep all these old books [for such a time as this ] i did find its location but it requires the removal of the washing machine to access it .im prity shure the leading shoe is the onEthe drum locates first after the wheel cylinder in normal direction of rotation ,the one at the front ,id be inclined to think the one with the lining closest to the w cylinder would go to the front , dont the shoes differ in the way the handbrake actuating leaver attaches ,maybe that will help you sort it out ,PUGS

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    COL
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    Default Leading Trailing Shoes

    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
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    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Fellow Frogger! neural revolt's Avatar
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    Thanks for your replies guys!

    "dont the shoes differ in the way the handbrake actuating leaver attaches ,maybe that will help you sort it out ,PUGS "

    Unfortunately, the new shoes are universal, meaning that the existing handbrake actuating lever can be mounted on either of the shoes.

    "Hi Mal

    This link may help you

    http://www.engineeringinspiration.co.uk/drumbrakes.html
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    Regards Col
    "

    If Figure 1 in that link is correct then the "low" lining is leading and the "high" lining is trailing, which is opposite to how I have installed them
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Past Frogs:
    Alpine White 1967 R10 (round eye)
    Alpine White 1972 R16TS
    Blue 1978 Virage Wagon

    Current:
    Red 2009 Clio RS 200 CUP

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    COL
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    Default Brake Shoes

    Mal

    It all depends on the direction that the drum is turning which shoe leads and which shoe trails.
    So you need to look at drum direction first to determine which shoe is leading and which is trailing.
    Study Fig 1 and you will see.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Fellow Frogger! neural revolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Mal

    It all depends on the direction that the drum is turning which shoe leads and which shoe trails.
    So you need to look at drum direction first to determine which shoe is leading and which is trailing.
    Study Fig 1 and you will see.
    Col,
    Yes, I understand that, the leading shoe will always be the one mounted towards the front of the car, and the forward motion aids the self-servo effect. The problem I have is which lining should be the installed as the leading shoe; i.e. the one with the high lining or the one with the low lining.
    Mal
    Past Frogs:
    Alpine White 1967 R10 (round eye)
    Alpine White 1972 R16TS
    Blue 1978 Virage Wagon

    Current:
    Red 2009 Clio RS 200 CUP

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    Fellow Frogger! tasgill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neural revolt View Post
    Col,
    Yes, I understand that, the leading shoe will always be the one mounted towards the front of the car, and the forward motion aids the self-servo effect. The problem I have is which lining should be the installed as the leading shoe; i.e. the one with the high lining or the one with the low lining.
    Mal
    Not sure what you mean when you say high and low lining, but if my memory serves me correctly, in a leading/trailing system, the leading shoe was always the longer lining. ( To balance wear I believe )

    Could you put a picture up of your setup?

    Cheers
    Terry

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    If the shoes are, as you say, "universal" - i.e. the new shoes are identical, then surely it doesn't matter?

    Tim

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    COL
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    Hi Mal

    I understand what you are asking now, from other diagrams I have here Fig 1 is correct. ie the postion of the linings on the shoes.

    So you may need to swap them around if yours are not the same as in Fig 1
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Fellow Frogger! neural revolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcusack View Post
    If the shoes are, as you say, "universal" - i.e. the new shoes are identical, then surely it doesn't matter?

    Tim
    Tim,
    The metal parts of the shoes are universal, and all the linings are of the same length. However, two of the shoes have the linings covering the top part of the shoe and the other two have the lining covering the lower part of the shoe (confusing..I know)
    Mal
    Past Frogs:
    Alpine White 1967 R10 (round eye)
    Alpine White 1972 R16TS
    Blue 1978 Virage Wagon

    Current:
    Red 2009 Clio RS 200 CUP

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    Fellow Frogger! neural revolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COL View Post
    Hi Mal

    I understand what you are asking now, from other diagrams I have here Fig 1 is correct. ie the postion of the linings on the shoes.

    So you may need to swap them around if yours are not the same as in Fig 1
    COL,
    I suspect that you are right...... God I hate stretching those rotten return springs!
    Past Frogs:
    Alpine White 1967 R10 (round eye)
    Alpine White 1972 R16TS
    Blue 1978 Virage Wagon

    Current:
    Red 2009 Clio RS 200 CUP

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    Fellow Frogger! neural revolt's Avatar
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    This is a photo of the nearside rear brakes. The front of the vehicle and the leading shoe are to the left of picture.
    Note the difference in the position of the lining material on the shoes between left and right and that the linings seem to be approx the same length.

    Have I installed the shoes correctly? or should they be reversed as Col suggests (and I am thinking likewise).
    Mal


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Leading/trailing shoes- which is which?-p1020358a.jpg  
    Past Frogs:
    Alpine White 1967 R10 (round eye)
    Alpine White 1972 R16TS
    Blue 1978 Virage Wagon

    Current:
    Red 2009 Clio RS 200 CUP

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    COL
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    Sorry Mal but looks like you need to swap the shoes around
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neural revolt View Post
    Thanks for your replies guys!

    "dont the shoes differ in the way the handbrake actuating leaver attaches ,maybe that will help you sort it out ,PUGS "

    Unfortunately, the new shoes are universal, meaning that the existing handbrake actuating lever can be mounted on either of the shoes.

    "Hi Mal

    This link may help you

    http://www.engineeringinspiration.co.uk/drumbrakes.html
    __________________
    Regards Col
    "

    If Figure 1 in that link is correct then the "low" lining is leading and the "high" lining is trailing, which is opposite to how I have installed them
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rear brakes don't do much work. If the brakes stop the car properly, forwards and backwards, and the handbrake holds, I'm not sure I'd bother too much if it were mine. A bit of difference on liner position and length may not be that critical.

    That isn't formal advice....... COL is no doubt correct!!

    Cheers

    John
    Last edited by JohnW; 5th May 2011 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Review of later posts ........
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by neural revolt View Post
    This is a photo of the nearside rear brakes. The front of the vehicle and the leading shoe are to the left of picture.
    Note the difference in the position of the lining material on the shoes between left and right and that the linings seem to be approx the same length.

    Have I installed the shoes correctly? or should they be reversed as Col suggests (and I am thinking likewise).
    Mal


    Funny, but I'd have done them the same way you did, i.e. as shown. It looks just like a Renault 750 front axle if you get the springs out of the way.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Funny, but I'd have done them the same way you did, i.e. as shown. It looks just like a Renault 750 front axle if you get the springs out of the way.
    Yes the way you've got them is correct.
    The other way tend to give greater wear, spongy pedal and more prone to lock up due to the greater leverage on the shoe which is self energising.
    Graham

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