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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default tapping

    all

    started noticing a distinctive tapping from engine ... goes up with revs

    could it possibly be related to a new valve seat fuel additive i've tried ?

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    ideas welcome - tappets?

    is a Series One 505

    Jeremy

  2. #2
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Jeremy,

    Your car is an STi from memory? It is unlikely (but still possible) to be VSR on the ZDJK engine, as they all had hardened valves and seats. Unless you have been running too much advance or a particularly lean mixture I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

    I have seen the camshafts and rockers wear in ZDJ engines with high mileage and not enough oil changes under their belts. It's only 3 nuts and the intake hose to take the rocker cover off and check. You will soon find a loose tappet by feeling each of them as you slowly turn the engine over to the point where each rocker is not contacting the camshaft.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

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    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

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  3. #3
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    Ta Scott

    i keep oil changes pretty good

    cheers

    JR

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    Fellow Frogger! tomb's Avatar
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    Jeremy our mechanic fixed a similar noise on the GTi, certainly sounded like a tappett, but he guessed that it was something like a loose stud on the exhaust manifold, I think a no. 1 cylinder. He said he had seen it often.

  5. #5
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Good point Tom - the Pulseair plumbing on the 505s tends to rot away after a few years, and a minor exhaust leak through one of these would definately sound like a 'tapping'.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  6. #6
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    cheers guys - i did take it to Charles St last week and Stu said there were some interesting exhaust notes

    will start looking for a new exhaust manifold / front pipe etc

    JR

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    my r20 has a similar noise at high rev's. I have just put it down to the cracked exhaust manifold that I havent got around to replacing!
    Michael
    now Renault-less

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    previous cars;
    81 Sno White R20TS S1
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  8. #8
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    A worn exhaust gasket or loose manifold nuts on a 504 sounds like you have pebbles in the engine! It makes a terrible noise.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

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    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  9. #9
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    Default update

    the mystery lingers ...

    i've had a couple of bolts replaced ... in fact three on the torque tube-gear box connection and one on the exhaust manifold

    obviously this has boosted my piece of mind and got rid of that terrible rattle (which an exhaust guy said was the front muffler ) ... but the tapping from the engine remains

    it is coming from the inlet side of the engine, towards the back, under the throttle body ...

    and this morning i noticed that the speedo needle "ticks" in time with it

    as i was driving along at about 60 this morning - the speedo needle was bouncing in time with the ticking coming from the engine

    as i revved out, so did the frequency of the ticking and the bouncing speedo needle

    this could be a clue ... as to what, i don't know

    JR

  10. #10
    COL
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    Default Ticking noise

    HI robjer

    I think you may have found your problem. Why don't you disconnect your speedo at the gearbox and go for a drive. I'm suspecting the speedo cable is the problem.

    Try it and let us know how you get on
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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  11. #11
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    ta

    so how would that work - what is making the clicking sound?

    J

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robjer View Post
    ta

    so how would that work - what is making the clicking sound?

    J
    The speedo inner is not traveling smoothly in its sheath.
    I dont know what exactly is clicking, as I cant describe what produces a sound that i have not heard, but either the path of the cable is wrong and/or it is worn out and needs replacing with a new cable.
    Sometimes giving the cable a slightly different path will change the sound or the needle bounce.

    I've bullied a few extra month out of old cables by lubing and re positioning them, but best to just buy a new cable (if it turns out to be the cable), especially with all the damn speed camera's around. A new speedo cable will pay for itself fairly promptly if the needle is bouncing and you cop a camera fine.

    Jo

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    great thanks Jo and Col - reckon this is progress

    JR

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    COL
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    Default Speedo Cable

    Hi Robjer

    I'm guessing the speedo cable is dammaged internally and the inner is getting caught up on the outer.
    I have noticed in the past that cars with flickering speedo needles have damaged speedo cables. and you said that the needle jumps around in time with the tick so i just put 2 & 2 together.
    By disconnecting the speedo cable you will proove if its in the speedo cable if the tick goes away when you go for a drive.
    This is not a guarantee just some thing that is easy to try and it will eliminate one more thing and it cost nothing to do.
    Hope this helps
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
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    so the ticking could be an electrical short or something?

    in terms of what it sounds like - like someone tapping the edge of a five cent coin on a stainless steal bench top

    much more noticeable in a cruise at lower revs

    once engine gets louder it is harder to notice

    will try it and report back ..

    ta

  16. #16
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    Default

    It's not likely to be an electrical short. Your car has a mechanical speedo driven off the gearbox or transmission.


    Agreed that it could be the speedo cable, but before you replace it, just check that it is properly secured at the back of the speedo. I had a 504 which made a clicking noise like you describe, with the speedo bouncing, and it just turned out that the speedo cable had not been properly tightened on the back of the speedo at the binnacle.

  17. #17
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    Default update

    ah ok - a mechanical cable ...

    well i've attempted to disconnect the cable but it looked impossible (for me, with my tools and time constraint) to disconnect from the gear box ... so i disconnected it from the back of the instrument panel and went for a drive ... sorry to report that the clicking remains while obviously there is no ticking of the speedy needle because it is at rest at zero

    so..... my knowledge level being fairly modest ... has my test gleaned any more light on the situation

    on reflection and now knowing that it is a mechanical cable - i probably still need to disconnect the cable from the box to do a proper test - yes?

    cheers

    JR
    Last edited by robjer; 7th March 2011 at 10:08 PM.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robjer View Post
    on reflection and now knowing that it is a mechanical cable - i probably still need to disconnect the cable from the box to do a proper test - yes?

    cheers

    JR
    Yes.

    Jo

  19. #19
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    ok then .... ta Jo

    seems to me to disconnect the cable i will need a tiny little spanner ... about 1cm

    and have to reach up to the top of the box and try and undo the little bolt so i can pull the cable out

    any short cuts or tips to get this done? seems a very confined space ... not sure i have a spanner that small

    JR

  20. #20
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Can you hear the tapping when you're not moving? I'm guessing you can, since you were able to tell us exactly where it sounds like it's coming from under the engine bay. If this is the case, it's got nothing to do with the speedo cable.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  21. #21
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    Default update

    yeah you raise an interesting point Scott

    if i idle the engine and open the bonnet and lean in to the engine bay - the tapping can be clearly heard - in the location i mentioned before

    however, if i'm sitting behind the wheel i have to strain to hear it

    and when i take the car out on the road - tapping becomes quite pronounced while cruising along at low to medium revs

    as i said - the tapping seems to be in time with the ticking of the speedo needle

    it is possible that there are two different noises - one from the engine in neutral that is part of the normal (?) noise of the engine

    the other one is something else that becomes prominent when the car is driving in gear

    or ... they could be the same tapping

    as i said - it is a very short "tick" sound - a bit like a coin being tapped on a metal surface

    the frequency at about 3000 revs is approx 5/sec but gets faster and slower with revs


  22. #22
    cdt
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    shot in the dark, but maybe cracked spark plug insulator arcing to the head

    cheers

    chris

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Have you tried putting a screwdriver to the engine...against your ear...this will locate "exact" location of sound...Obviously you make sure you dont let screwdriver anywher near moving parts ..eg, fan, belts...and obviously do not let it touch leads while holding metal shaft...be sensible please...Otherwise buy a mechanics stethoscope...



    dino

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    Have you tried putting a screwdriver to the engine...against your ear...this will locate "exact" location of sound...Obviously you make sure you dont let screwdriver anywher near moving parts ..eg, fan, belts...and obviously do not let it touch leads while holding metal shaft...be sensible please...Otherwise buy a mechanics stethoscope...



    dino
    I like your latter suggestion better.


    Stay tuned for Dino's hot tip......"How to best remove screwdrivers from your now enlarged ear canal".

  25. #25
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    will try disconnecting the speedo cable first
    i called a Pug guru today and got some instructions on how to do this - although the bolt looks damn hard to get to i will try with a little spanner and see how i go

    re tracking the noise - am not sure the two noises are the same (that sounds crazy )
    but ..
    have tried the hose-to-ear method with modest results - will try screw driver method next - ta Dino

    JR

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