Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110
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Thread: Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110

    Hi all,

    As some of you might have read in the Renault division, you will know that I had some scary moments and decided to do the big brake conversion.

    Well, I have started the process and would like to know if there are enough interest then I will do a step by step with pictures. This mod is nothing new and there are kits to buy from France with all the parts. With this upgrade one will be able to use 16TS pads or for competition pads you can consult the Mazda RX7 pages. They are the same.

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    Let me know.

    Regards
    Frans.
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    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Default I'm in......

    Hi Frans,

    As this a french car forum and we do talk cars a lot we also get side tracked and have a little fun along the way but.......

    In my opinion any technical information available from people as qualified as you is a must, the more the merrier.

    This is all about sharing the knowledge and networking with like minded individuals and personally, if it is Renault stuff all the better, one never stops learning.

    And there is no point amassing vast amounts of knowledge and skill over a lifetime unless you can share it with all who are interested.

    It's a big yes please from me.........

    Graham
    AKA 59 Floride

  3. #3
    COL
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    Default Big Brake Conversion

    Hi Frans

    I have the parts for the conversion on my A110 but as yet have not fiited them cause of lack of time and to many other things to do.

    Would be great to have a step by step record on here, so looking forward to another one of your quality reports
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default "Gros Freins"

    Hi Frans,
    The mount plates are the most difficult to get for the guys.

    If you have sketches of the parts, I will draw them and get them to a CNC machinist and make them available for Forum members at cost +post.

    I will be going a similar way with the Dauphine, but will be making new hubs to accommodate the extra offset mounting of the wheels I want to use. I have already started drawing my parts.

    Ray geckoeng

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default The Start

    I have eventually started on this. I have renamed the pics hoping that they will appear in the same number order starting with 1 : Obviously!

    In Pic 1 is the size ally discs I have bought. This was the closest diameter bar that they could get to suit the square I needed.

    In Pic 2 are the discs for me and Johan. The cost is NZ$50.00 each. Expensive but Tempered ally.

    In pic 3 I had to disassemble the vice to fit the discs in. Then the trusty old saw chugged along and cut the disc edges off so I could have them in squares.

    In pic 4 I did some finishing on the edges to look nice and get them squared.

    In pic 5 I started the marking out and drilling some holes.

    In pic 6 I made the big hole with a hole saw because I do not have a 4 jaw chuck for my lathe. That was quite some job because typically ally it cloggs the teeth.

    In pic7 I bolted the caliper holder on and marked the lines for milling.

    In pic 8 I did a test assembly to mark the rear of the stub axle for milling as well.

    In Pic 9 the milling has started.

    So far the work has gone well but this is no love job. The milling is a lot of boring hard monotonous crappy work. I have stopped now to do this thread to allow the milling machine motor to cool down a bit.

    To be continued.....................

    Frans
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-1disc-size.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-2discs.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-3cut-squares.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-4finish-edges.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-5marking.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-6drill-holes.jpg  

    Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-7caliper-marks.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-8test-assy.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-9milling.jpg  
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    COL
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    Default Big Brake Conversion

    Hi Frans

    Keep up the good work and the high quality postings. Looking forward to the finished product
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Clogging Blade !!!

    Hi Frans, you are living up to your heritage - "'n boer maak a plan"(a farmer makes a plan). You are doing it, very well done. They look very good.

    To stop the blade clogging, spray the blade and part with CRC. Make sure it is a well ventilated area, I have past experience of the after effects in NZ.

    Ray geckoeng

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    dvr
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    Default

    Not a criticism but a suggestion.

    That's a lot of work for lug mounted brackets. I'd suggest 6mm plate with spacers tacked to fill the gap between the plate and caliper. As for the thread if that's in the caliper fine if not tacking nuts on the plate works. Also offsetting the caliper in relation to the four bolts spreads the load force away from the two closest bolts.

    I know alloy looks better and is the more exotic material but that's a lot of machining for something more easily made in steel. I've made many similar brackets in steel and worked them hard without failure on the track including 6 hour relay races etc.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi dvr,
    Criticism is good.

    During our Targa in 2009 the Alpine A110 that I crewed for had big brakes on. On about the the 3rd day the wheel bearing seized while cruising back to the service point and overnight stay. It twisted the stub axle off and the wheel came out taking everything with it, disc, caliper brake hose etc. We made a new bracket overnight with a piece of 8mm and 10mm flat bar welded together and the car finished the 6 days of ralying and then continued on with a track event later on.

    So, yes I agree with you but my reason is that this is a track car and weight is a problem and this will be unsprung weight as well. Then I have to make it as professional as possible because the car is road legal and this has to be certified for warrants every 6 months.

    The original brakes is so good that there is no rush for this. This mod will allow me access to competition pads.

    Frans
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi,

    I've been away for 4 days so that spoiled my progress although all is back to normal now.

    Attached is another set of pics of the make up and I am now finished with the Caliper holder. The next step is to fit the disc to the hub. That will need some turning and drilling only. I will wait a bit with that because I do not have any disc rotors of my own yet.

    Pic 10 shows the milling completed on the one side facing the stub axle.

    pic 11 shows the same piece fitted to the stub axle with the disc on so that I can do some measurements to get the exact dimensions to remove more material so that the caliper mounts in the middle of the disc.

    Pic 12 shows the side that I have just measured in Pic 11 now milled away.

    Pic 13 & 14 shows the assembly complete with the caliper holder.

    Pic 15, 16, 17 shows the completed brake assembly with disc pads installed as well.

    The full completion of this mod is now very close but I will do the next race, Jan 15 & 16, with the old brakes because it will be another rush and no testing etc.

    To be continued...........................

    Frans.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-10-inside-shape.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-11-inside-fitting.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-12-caliper-shape.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-13-caliper-fitting.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-14-caliper-fitting2.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-15pad-fitting1.jpg  

    Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-16pad-fiting2.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-17pad-fitting3.jpg  
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Gros Freins !!!

    Frans, they look so very good, can't wait to get started on mine. Like the grooves in the discs, will design and make some tooling to do the same on mine.

    Very fortunate have 2 sets of good discs (front and rear0.

    Enjoy your Thread thanks,

    Ray geckoeng

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Hi ray,i am living in port st johns, sorry but scrapmetal dealers invaded my yard and cut up the body,i will check 4 window hinges,i know there are windows for doors,and speedometer,wiper arms.....,

  13. #13
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    Default

    Frans if you need i can make the 3D model and any CAD drawings you need if you want to send the drawings to people.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRTDVL View Post
    Frans if you need i can make the 3D model and any CAD drawings you need if you want to send the drawings to people.
    Thanks for that, offer accepted. I do have a drawing but it is in .jpeg format.

    Frans.
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default Completion of Big Brakes!!

    Hi All,

    Time has passed and I slowly completed the project. This is the last pictures of the manufacturing and I hope that it might work and help someone someday. Drawings help a lot but we all know that there could be a huge difference between theory and practical.

    Pic 18 shows my own discs (thanks kiwia110) refurbished and slots milled in. I milled the slots so that they are a left & right. The direction of the slots should be so that it looks like someone diving into a pool towards the front of the car. ie left and right is opposites.

    Pic 19 is a spacer that I had to turn to center the disc when placed over the hub. Ignore the flat sides in the spacer because I didn't have a piece big enough so I used a piece of flat bar.

    Pic 20 shows the spacer in place.

    Pic 21 shows where the new holes protruded after drilling with the spacer in place.

    Pic 22 shows the new holes prepped with the milling machine so that the mounting bolts will sit on a flat surface.

    Pic 23 shows the disc mounted on the hub with its own new bolts. Allencap bolts will have to be used with a standard conversion as well because otherwise they will protrude into the rim area. Note how close they are to the centering ridge on the hub

    Pic 25 shows how I had to modify my spacers by milling 3 slots in to clear the Allencaps. Obviously this is only in my case.

    Pic 26 Shows my reconditioned calipers

    Now that I know the bench fitting is done I will mount it on the car and it should be a breeze. Then the next thing: how will they work and feel?

    Regards
    Frans.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-18completed-disc.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-19spacer.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-20spacer-position.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-21newholes.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-22new-hole-prepped.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-23fitted-new-holes.jpg  

    Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-25spacer.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-26reconcaliper.jpg  
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default Final..

    Hi All,

    Reality began when I started the real assembly today. The proof is in the pudding.

    All turned out well as were experienced in the mock-up. It turned out well and I found now hidden catch points even when the tow wheels as well as the race wheels were fitted. I will follow up when they are bled and I took it for a test run.

    Regards
    Frans.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-img_0001.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-img_0003.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-img_0005.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-img_0006.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-img_0007.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-img_0009.jpg  

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  17. #17
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    Thanks for this Frans - I need to do this as well.

    I'm curious about your spacer (pic 25). How is it attached to the hub?

    Edit: nevermind - I see in the next pics that you put longer studs on the hub. Now it's clear.

    Again, thanks for the explanation.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default Report back

    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    Hi All,

    I will follow up when they are bled and I took it for a test run.

    Regards
    Frans.
    This mod is a must!! I am sure that I apply less pressure on the pedal than general boosted pedals and I get more braking power. I can lock the fronts up at free will just by dabbing the pedal 'playfully'. (I don't know how else to describe it)
    This is with road tyres. It will definitely be much better with the racing tyres on and I will have to adapt with the new brakes.

    I will be able to tell after the weekend of 19 March.

    Regards
    Frans.
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  19. #19
    VIP Sponsor 59 Floride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    This mod is a must!! I am sure that I apply less pressure on the pedal than general boosted pedals and I get more braking power. I can lock the fronts up at free will just by dabbing the pedal 'playfully'. (I don't know how else to describe it)
    This is with road tyres. It will definitely be much better with the racing tyres on and I will have to adapt with the new brakes.

    I will be able to tell after the weekend of 19 March.

    Regards
    Frans.

    Thanks for a quality thread Frans...keep em coming.

  20. #20
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frans View Post
    This mod is a must!! I am sure that I apply less pressure on the pedal than general boosted pedals and I get more braking power. I can lock the fronts up at free will just by dabbing the pedal 'playfully'. (I don't know how else to describe it)
    This is with road tyres. It will definitely be much better with the racing tyres on and I will have to adapt with the new brakes.
    Great to hear Frans. I have a question: I saw some other instruction that had this:
    The center holes in the R16 rotors are bigger (84mm. for the R16, to 60mm. for the R8), so we need to mount an adapter to center the rotor on the hub. To keep the centering adapter in place we need to make six 1mm thick, 13x15 mm steel plates. A 10mm hole should be drilled somewhat out of center of those plates. The retainer plates are mounted on the inside of the rotor with Allan bolts with a low head (D=10mm. L=25mm) and a lock washer.
    Is this actually a necessary step to keep the centering adapter in place? Or is it held in place by the hub?

  21. #21
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    Default Big Brakes

    Hi Frans,

    I have just gone through this thread and am totally blown away by what you have done to upgrade the brakes on your R8.

    I am rebuilding an R8 and want to ensure I have good brakes, as I want to start initally with hillclimbing and club sprints, with eventually track races.

    I really don't have access to the machines and workshop that you have available to you, and was wondering if you or anyone out there could provide a complete brake kit, ready to bolt straight on (I can do this).

    Also 3 stud alloy wheels are very difficult to come by in Australia, so I was wondering if a 4 stud hub could be made or adapted with such a kit to suit a larger array of wheels (say to suit Japanese 4 stud wheels) which could be 14" or 15", as racing rubber to suit is also more readily available.

    Also are you using the R16 calipers?

    Are you interested or could you direct me to someone who could provide this kit, including calipers, for front and back, ready to just bolt on? Please PM if you want to discuss further.

    Please keep up the inspirational posts!

    Cheers
    Angelo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-2011-03-12-10.07.46.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-2011-03-12-10.08.01.jpg   Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-2011-03-12-10.08.57.jpg  

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    R8 Dream,

    I answered your question before you asked it! In the other thread

    You can buy the brackets from MecaParts. (I think).

    About the 4 stud wheels. First of all, Is it legal?

    Frans
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  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! R8 Dream's Avatar
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    Default Big Brakes R8 - A110?

    I found these brackets on MecaParts, but appear to be for the A110 Alpine (part MP3801 Front) see attached image

    http://www.mecaparts.com/Freinage/pa...l=A110&page=29

    Do you know if these will fit the R8 and will the R16 calipers fit with R16 carrier?

    Also I note Mecaparts have both 8mm and 12mm thickness discs available, which one would suit?

    Angelo
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110-mp3801.gif  

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts geckoeng's Avatar
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    Default Gros Freins !!

    Angelo,

    You found the right thing, all he same.

    Here is another contact for the kit, you can also look for Colombo.

    http://www.gbsalpine.com/english/a110/catalog/p11.html

    Enjoy!!!!
    Ray geckoeng

    Think Old, But Run Modern !!

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default

    As Ray said.

    I would go for the 12 mm 16TS discs. That is part of the idea behind the "Big Brakes".
    There is a small mod to do on the discs as seen in my pictures in the drilling of the 3 new holes.

    Regards
    Frans
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

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