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Thread: Big Brake Conversion for R8/R10 A110

  1. #51
    Fellow Frogger! 21571's Avatar
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    Thanks Frans. If you went all the way to the edge the expansion/contraction cycle could well lead to fatigue cracks.

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  2. #52
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Just a question, have you eliminated the other possible causes? Specifically I'm thinking of the type of pads and brake fluid you have in there.

    Regards, Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  3. #53
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    Honestly no. I'm not sure if the two other A310s were running anything other than stock pads. I'll ask Andrew and David. They both have the vented R17 systems in the '73 A310-4 and 78 V6 Alpine. The 74-76 A310-4s got the R16 solid system. They had no fade issues. Neither did the A110s, but they're at least 100kg lighter than me, and I had a big passenger too, while being over 90kg myself. If the R17 system would drop straight on I'd do that, but they changed every suspension component, the caliper pitch is different, and the disc would have to be spaced out as it is taller and would foul Pt12, ie the outer tie rod. I did a complete flush of the brake fluid before going.

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  4. #54
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    If the pedal went soft when this happened the culprit would be 90% sure the brake fluid. If the pedal stayed hard or quite normal and the car is not slowing down then the issue will be 90% pad problems.

    I'm sure the brakes should be able to handle spirited driving and it is better off than in the 16TS because I think your A310 will be much lighter than the 16TS.

    You have to start somewhere so maybe the explanation above should give you an idea where the most likely problem is.

    Good luck. Frans
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    Young enough to do it anyway.

  5. #55
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    The A310-4 is 840kg, I was pushing pretty hard. The Yoko A048s have way more grip than the car was designed around. Lucky when you enter a corner faster than anticipated! It's an unboosted system, the pedal has never been that firm, but will lock the fronts when really pushed. When cold.
    Without going to the shed think I used Castrol Dot4. Pads are unknown. What would you change to?
    I'm an automotive engineer, so do love playing with ideas, and over complicating them.
    That doesn't compare with proper experience with these cars though!

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  6. #56
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    I think that I would do a pad change first. I think in this area there will be many different likings from different people. I can only say based on my experience because I'm no specialist in this.

    My first set on the race car after I changed to big brakes was Pagid. Very good but needs to be very hot before it starts working. Then I had Ferodo R Racing pads. They were good from a cold start and got better as they warm up, the same performance as the Yellow Stuff I'm using now because the Yellow Stuff pads are easier to get hold of for me.

    The Dot 4 says nothing much about the boiling point. I'm using Dot 4 Motul 660 at the moment. I think it is the highest temperature rated at the moment. Maybe a little over the top for my car's weight but I had a very scary experience on track, that's why I went for the top dog. I must admit that I was using the standard Super Cheap Dot 4 brake fluid for quite a while before the boiling fluid caused my scare. Boiling fluid will always cause a failure instantaneously. It will be perfect on the previous corner and no brakes on the next.

    Some useless info for everybody. Boiling Brake Fluid. When driving mountain passes or racing or any out of the ordinary type of brake usage the temperature will rise in the pads and be transfered to the fluid. This increase will build up gradually until just before the boiling point is reached. On the next bend this boiling point will be exceeded but you don't know that, do you? So arriving at the next corner you slam on the brakes and they work perfectly as they shoot up over the boiling point, but they don't boil because they are under huge pressure. (same as a radiator with pressure cap the boiling point is increased to lets say 120 degrees, or a pressure cooker used by the missus when food is cooked at 120 degrees.) The higher the pressure the higher the boiling point. So now you managed to slow down normally and after the corner you let go of the brakes and suddenly there is no more pressure and the fluid starts boiling. At the next corner you apply the brakes at the very last moment and then there is nothing. You now have very little time to think of a plan and that's why you normally crap yourself at this point.

    Something to think about.

    Regards, Frans.
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  7. #57
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    The Motul has a much higher boiling point than the Castrol according to their MSDSs. Obviously a pad that works from cold is a must on a road car.
    As I don't hit the track, or even get a chance for extended spirited road driving, finding out what a different pad does is not an experiment I could back up.
    Putting on vented discs will definitely help though. I can get the Clio 259mm discs and 48mm calipers inside my rims. I've got an adapter drawn up in CAD for that. Will source some of the 54mm ones too and see if they fit. More clamping with those, will require going up a master cylinder size.

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  8. #58
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    This is my first cut at an adapter bracket. Purple bosses represent my spindle, the cyan the Clio anchor bracket.
    I'll get one printed in plastic before cutting any metal.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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