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  1. #1726
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Thanks Shane, but it's a bit small. My Stihl 076 has 111 cc and 25 and 36 inch bars.

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  2. #1727
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    Bought this little digital level/angle gauge/protractor yesterday. Have been wanting one for some years, and they are now reasonably priced.
    Main reason is for direct reading of camber on wheel alignment, also caster with a bit of fiddling, plus I think it will be useful for a myriad of jobs.

    But current purpose is to measure camshaft timing angles as I have a go at replacing timing chains in a V6 Commodore for my nephew. There is a common problem with "stretched" timing chains in some of the VE models, causing fault codes due to "poor correlation" of the cams to the crankshaft. Anyway, I want to do a before & after measurement (for my own interest), not just line up the timing marks and hope the problem goes away. The digital level is not a required tool for the job.

    Size is 150mm long, reads to 2 decimal places, but only accurate +/- 0.1, which is fine for home-grown wheel alignments.

    Obtained from Toolmart, they have similar sized one on special $99, but I chose to go the Moore & Wright model at $170, hoping for at least a little bit of quality. Main housing is alloy, and bottom edge is machined. Also has a regular 9v battery, the cheaper one has a "coin-type" battery. I have also seen some smaller models, down to $30 on-line, one brand is AccuRemote which looks ok at +/- $100, they are almost a cube shape, pocket sized, may be very handy also.

    Tool Talk-img_20180705_reduced.jpg

    Just another tool!

    Edit: Other handy features of this model - a Hold function to lock on a reading in a tight space, and a laser cross-beam from one end, probably handy for the building trades especially.
    Last edited by Fordman; 5th July 2018 at 07:02 PM. Reason: Add comment
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  3. #1728
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    There is so much that comes up on those facebook groups that has your name written all over it!
    Just as well I haven't joined any of those groups!

    Roger

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    Calling all detectives,

    just had to replace the Argon Cylinder on my MIG welder setup. Did what I've done three or four times previous took the old one back to the store, exchanged for a full one & departed some $130 worse off. Back home heaved the thing onto the trolley, screwed in the regulator connection with fresh thread tape, opened the valve & painted soapy water on the joint to look for bubbles (none). Now the pressure went waaaay higher than the old cylinder when I cracked the valve - no surprise there, had to adjust the whirlywheel to get the flow rate back to just over "10" logically enough with a new cylinder. The odd bit is when I finished welding & closed the valve the pressure stayed the same on the reg. gauge. Even turned the welder back on (valve closed) & gave it a 'squirt' in case the 'trapped' pressure was being held in the line - no change. tried tapping the gauge gently in case it had stuck. Went away for a week and when I returned gauge had gone back to zero. Did some more welding, now the gauge is stuck on high again after valve closed. Is it likely I'm needing a new regulator?
    Happy fixing,
    Rob
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  5. #1730
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick56 View Post
    Calling all detectives,

    just had to replace the Argon Cylinder on my MIG welder setup. Did what I've done three or four times previous took the old one back to the store, exchanged for a full one & departed some $130 worse off. Back home heaved the thing onto the trolley, screwed in the regulator connection with fresh thread tape, opened the valve & painted soapy water on the joint to look for bubbles (none). Now the pressure went waaaay higher than the old cylinder when I cracked the valve - no surprise there, had to adjust the whirlywheel to get the flow rate back to just over "10" logically enough with a new cylinder. The odd bit is when I finished welding & closed the valve the pressure stayed the same on the reg. gauge. Even turned the welder back on (valve closed) & gave it a 'squirt' in case the 'trapped' pressure was being held in the line - no change. tried tapping the gauge gently in case it had stuck. Went away for a week and when I returned gauge had gone back to zero. Did some more welding, now the gauge is stuck on high again after valve closed. Is it likely I'm needing a new regulator?
    Happy fixing,
    Rob
    I bet they have started filling the bottles to a higher pressure ............... You get more in a smaller bottle that way! you will need a new gauge if they have. Your regulator is obviously handling it for now .................

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  6. #1731
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    Thanks Shane,

    I'll keep going with the current Reg for now & defer replacement 'til it actually stops.
    Regards,
    Rob
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  7. #1732
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    G'day Rob,

    reckon I'd be replacing that regulator, continuing with dicey stuff at high pressure is not a real good idea. And, thread seal tape ? these regulators should not need any sealing tape, the sealing is around the nose that goes into the seat in the bottle - just like your BBQ. Soapy water check is good, but if it leaks it's the nose connection not the threads that is a problem...

    Loose bits of Teflon tape around this type gear is likely not a good idea either, you don't want any finding it's way into the regulator.

    cheers,
    Bob

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  9. #1734
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    G'day Rob,

    reckon I'd be replacing that regulator, continuing with dicey stuff at high pressure is not a real good idea. And, thread seal tape ? these regulators should not need any sealing tape, the sealing is around the nose that goes into the seat in the bottle - just like your BBQ. Soapy water check is good, but if it leaks it's the nose connection not the threads that is a problem...

    Loose bits of Teflon tape around this type gear is likely not a good idea either, you don't want any finding it's way into the regulator.

    cheers,
    Bob
    Thanks Bob,

    yep I saw how the reg. seals into the cylinder valve, just used the threadtape as a sort of 'belt' to the braces - was careful not to let any cover the rubber 'nose' part - only on the brass thread. Don't believe there's a leak but it's weird how the gauges are 'stuck.' First time I noticed they went back to zero over the course of one week - this time another week's gone by & the pressures stayed at 15,000 & 'flow' 12 apparently (bottle off).

    Happy Fixing,
    Rob
    may all your plans be cunning ones,
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  10. #1735
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I'd suggest that regulator has some serious internal issues.

    And because of the high pressures involved (around 3500 psi give or take) with the contents of the full mig shield cylinder.

    The grand spend of around $60, for a new regulator complete with gauges may be good investment in your safety.

    https://sydneytools.com.au/unimig-re...NJCjXeYGGmqMLR
    Last edited by robmac; 8th July 2018 at 10:34 PM.
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  11. #1736
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    I am a DIY er. I am never happy with what others do for me. And that often included myself. I wanted 200 metres of concrete kerbing so I am doing it myself at perhaps 3 or 4 metres a week. Sure it will take for ever and isn't perfect but I couldn't get any one to do what I wanted. Except for big money. So what has this got to do with tools?

    I wanted a lathe and the treasurer said "it isn't in your budget buddy". So I thought I'll build my own. But I found I needed a milling machine so I thought I'll build my own. The job I needed for the lathe required a mill to what I have called stage one. That I now have finished to working stage but I needed a sheet metal bender just to provide a better finish. So I am now almost finished building the sheet metal bender. Next will be the lathe. I have an 8 inch chuck, an old drill head I can adapt as a tail stock. I was going to make the head stock but got one complete off ebay cheap. Almost all the rest come from mates scrap bin donations. That included the important bits for my mill. Once I have the basic lathe done I can use it to finish the mill. Lots of design errors and as 59 Floride says "imagineering". But it is great fun. I know the 10 needs the motor out. The 17 needs the gearbox out. The Floride S has sat in under coat for more than 18 months. The 4CV..... well I won't go on you get the idea.
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  12. #1737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
    I am a DIY er. I am never happy with what others do for me. And that often included myself. I wanted 200 metres of concrete kerbing so I am doing it myself at perhaps 3 or 4 metres a week. Sure it will take for ever and isn't perfect but I couldn't get any one to do what I wanted. Except for big money. So what has this got to do with tools?

    I wanted a lathe and the treasurer said "it isn't in your budget buddy". So I thought I'll build my own. But I found I needed a milling machine so I thought I'll build my own. The job I needed for the lathe required a mill to what I have called stage one. That I now have finished to working stage but I needed a sheet metal bender just to provide a better finish. So I am now almost finished building the sheet metal bender. Next will be the lathe. I have an 8 inch chuck, an old drill head I can adapt as a tail stock. I was going to make the head stock but got one complete off ebay cheap. Almost all the rest come from mates scrap bin donations. That included the important bits for my mill. Once I have the basic lathe done I can use it to finish the mill. Lots of design errors and as 59 Floride says "imagineering". But it is great fun. I know the 10 needs the motor out. The 17 needs the gearbox out. The Floride S has sat in under coat for more than 18 months. The 4CV..... well I won't go on you get the idea.
    Years ago, when I was more active in building things and didn't have the money to buy machine tools, I went out and priced secondhand milling machines, with the idea of machine castings for a lathe. big drill press, but discovered for a lot less money one could buy an ex government or tech school shaping machine and having used those extensively while doing my apprenticeship that would be the best and most economical way to build machines from scratch (this was before cheap Chinese machinery flooded the market) for a variety of reasons including available time and raising a young famlly that didn't eventuate as other priorities intervened, and you also had to re-wire for the required power supply of those older machines.

    I wonder if cheap heavy duty shaping machines are still around as truly you can make anything,slot keyways, cut gears, matched V blocks and most test equipment like surface plates and small instruments. Yep I would have dearly loved to get a universal Cincinnatee Milling machine with an indexing head but even the milling heads were very expensive as you were competing with industrial tool shops for good equipment.

    Just a thought for those trying to get on the first step to a comprehensive workshop for the least outlay of cash!

    Ken

  13. #1738
    bob
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    G'day,

    much agree Ken, the machine shop Willi' Tech held a row of lathes and a shaper - nothing as sexy as a miller. Like you, I came to learn that a very simple machine could do a whole lot of stuff...

    This is mirrored in the old time small machine world, modelling, horology and the like. There is a tiny Adept lathe here, probably older than me, that was Dad's, on which I learned the basics well before Tech School...
    Adept and TNC Lathes
    It's perfect partner on the showroom floor was a whole family of shapers....
    Adept Shapers

    If they could make that stuff at family man's prices it should have been a breeze to produce a miller to add to the group, obviously they didn't see the need. Of course, the little lathe could be used for some milling, with the addition of a basic attachment - which I made Willi' Tech of course, class material 'n all....

    An interesting observation on the Chinese machinery invasion - long long ago, when they mostly came from Taiwan, the prices were much the same as now for the basic stuff, it's just that our wages and wealth has advanced somewhat over the last 50 years. But the quality of the basic stuff has also dropped...

    cheers,
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob View Post
    G'day,

    much agree Ken, the machine shop Willi' Tech held a row of lathes and a shaper - nothing as sexy as a miller. Like you, I came to learn that a very simple machine could do a whole lot of stuff...

    This is mirrored in the old time small machine world, modelling, horology and the like. There is a tiny Adept lathe here, probably older than me, that was Dad's, on which I learned the basics well before Tech School...
    Adept and TNC Lathes
    It's perfect partner on the showroom floor was a whole family of shapers....
    Adept Shapers

    If they could make that stuff at family man's prices it should have been a breeze to produce a miller to add to the group, obviously they didn't see the need. Of course, the little lathe could be used for some milling, with the addition of a basic attachment - which I made Willi' Tech of course, class material 'n all....

    An interesting observation on the Chinese machinery invasion - long long ago, when they mostly came from Taiwan, the prices were much the same as now for the basic stuff, it's just that our wages and wealth has advanced somewhat over the last 50 years. But the quality of the basic stuff has also dropped...

    cheers,
    Bob
    Interesting bit of kit that small adept shaper, never saw any as small as that, the Ordnance Factory at Bendigo had some basic medium size shapers and the Bendigo Tech had one smaller than the Ordnance ones but still but very functional and quite powerful with quite a long adjustable stroke, it always amazed me what could be built from scratch using just the capabilities of the shaper.

    Looking at that hobby style adept shaper , that would be relatively easy to cast the grey cast iron to machine and build a copy due to its simple lines. I liked the English progression through technology, hand a man a file and he will build a machine and then use that machine to build a bigger one and each one capable of better precision.


    In a similar way I was always fascinated with the treadle and rope spindle lathes to spin wood, and anyone could build one of those as a challenge.


    We will have to drop in and give Skipton a visit soon and get some inspiration mate,



    Ken.

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    I'm confused. I had never heard of a shaping machine before. What is the difference between a shaper and a milling machine?

    Thanks,
    Roger

  16. #1741
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaper

    IMO a mill is far more useful.

    In the 70s whilst working for Village Theatres in their service department, our sheet metal supplier (Henry Harrison Cabinets) had a full tool room.

    If you were mates with the Tool room fitter, Saturday morning was "foreigners" day on their circa 40s Bridgeport vertical mill

    Here's one for Sale.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRIDGEPORT-...-/232831724513
    Last edited by robmac; 14th July 2018 at 09:35 AM.
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  17. #1742
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    Rob, I had already looked at that wikipedia page but did not find it helped my understanding. My understanding is that with a lathe the workpiece turns and the cutter is stationary with its movement controlled linearly. And with a mill the cutter turns and the workpiece is stationary with its movement controlled linearly. But I cannot see the difference between a mill and a shaper. I admit I have not spent a long time trying to understand the difference.

    Roger

  18. #1743
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    The name is the giveaway. The shaper works by imparting the tool shape on the work by definition. Think of it as a file with only one tooth. Anything you can do with a file (or a bunch of different files), you can do with a shaper.

    A shaper will cut any shape with linear motion only and no attachments as opposed to a mill, which will only cut flat surfaces by design and round with special attachments (boring head or rotary tables) or a lathe, which will only cut round shapes by design.

    A typical application is cutting internal key slots but I assume you already knew that.

    A mill and the lathe can impart tool shape on parts/work as well, but only in special cases such as threading (on the lathe) or dove tail cutting (on the mill). You will notice however that the shape imparted still follows the main motion of the machines. Normally you don't use shaping tools on these two machines, but then again, a shaper is expensive and these days even el cheapo machines like mine can produce acceptable results for the average hobbyist and attachments have come down in price enough that we can afford them.

    A shaper will also produce better clearances/finish/tolerance than a mill on the same final product. That is why you'll probably find shapers mainly in tool makers' workshops these days.

    People say in the machining world that the only thing you can't make with a shaper is profit.

    Look up Stefan Gotteswinter's channel on youtube. He has some interesting shaper videos.

    PS. Apologies to Stefan. Thanks Rob.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 15th July 2018 at 02:53 AM.
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  19. #1744
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    FYI his correct name is Stefan Gotteswinter.

    List of videos : https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl/videos

    Shaper video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsBv14gWglw

    Machining a bush on a shaper : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK5WYeSMWt8
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  20. #1745
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    Dang.

    Yes.

    Gotteswinter it is.

    Retard.

    PS. You can also look up This Old Tony for interesting shaper videos (early videos).
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 15th July 2018 at 03:02 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #1746
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Dang.

    Yes.

    Gotteswinter it is.

    Retard.

    PS. You can also look up This Old Tony for interesting shaper videos (early videos).
    The first time I saw a shaper in action, was in the early 60s, when visiting JR Bedison (High St Malvern), with my brother, he was collecting his mini cylinder head.

    JR Bedison was an old time machine shop.

    At that time Bedison did all the machining work for the local Toyota dealer. They had a few Toyota (Corona?) heads lined up on the Cincinnati shaper and were doing a mass head resurface. It was the middle of Summer.

    I bet they made money out that job.
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  22. #1747
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    Wow.

    You must be either off your face or incredibly good to do that.

    Mass head resurfacing?! The mind boggles at the thought of setting it all up. Geez.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  23. #1748
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    All flat surfaces and identical, mass produced items. So set up shouldn't be too hard. Aluminium heads of that era were pretty soft too.

    I guess the shaper was used to achieve a smooth, polished finish. Unlike a mill. And fast than milling (three ?) individual heads.

    I remember the dude standing there and brushing off the swarf.
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  24. #1749
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    Yeah, if they were new heads it may be somewhat easier, but you still have to make sure they're individually flat and they are cut to the same thickness (i.e. you can not end up with a head thicker at one end than the other, and you can not end up taking 0.01 mm off one head and .05 off the next - or maybe you want to take different cuts - but the problem remains, you have to take exactly the depth you want and I would imagine there would be enough difference in thickness from one head to the next just from casting anyway, possibly more than .5mm ). The point is, you have to set up each head individually.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  25. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeah, if they were new heads it may be somewhat easier, but you still have to make sure they're individually flat and they are cut to the same thickness (i.e. you can not end up with a head thicker at one end than the other, and you can not end up taking 0.01 mm off one head and .05 off the next - or maybe you want to take different cuts - but the problem remains, you have to take exactly the depth you want and I would imagine there would be enough difference in thickness from one head to the next just from casting anyway, possibly more than .5mm ). The point is, you have to set up each head individually.
    Yes, I understand how things can go wrong.

    Maybe Toyota manufacturing tolerance had proved that individual jigging was not required.

    After all the opposite side was the tappet cover face.

    John was a reputable engineer and any work he did for my brother on his Mini and later for me on my Peugeots was always spot on.

    And after 55 years the reasons behind why he used a shaper are now impossible to determine. Especially since JR Beddison premises are now a residential development. And John let go his of mortal coil many years ago.
    Last edited by robmac; 15th July 2018 at 05:08 PM.
    Departed the Aussie Frogs Community 14 September 2018.

    The moderator/leader should not operate for the sole benefit of himself and his kind but for the benefit of the people at large and of the AF Fraternity and its patterns, as becomes what he perceives as fitting into place, into his sense of natural justice.
    with apologies to Judy Grahn

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