GTi6 motor into 205GTi
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  1. #1
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    GTi6 motor into 205GTi

    I'm currently part-way through jamming a '99' GTi6 motor into my '93' 205 and was wondering if anyone out there could lend a bit of tech advice? (Chipper's pointers have been a huge help so far)

    I've just remounted the exhaust manifold back onto the new motor complete with 20mm port -matched aluminium wedge (to clear the firewall). I am now chasing a suitable spiggot bearing to mate the 205 box up to the 306 clutch. Is any one aware of any off-the-shelf component that will allow them to mate. What's the deal with the crank angle sensor? - does the 306 system require one where the 205 system does not?

    Also, I have the 306 computer and the 205 computer - which one do I use?. Might sound obvious but I heard somewhere that the 205 computers are reprogrammable. Or would it make better sense to do away with both and go aftermarket? It was mentioned to me at some point that I may have trouble operating the cabin tacho with this new engine.

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    If anyone's interested in the existing motor let me know. (approx 165,000km on it) peugeot_

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Geez that'll be nice. Great motor standard, so I wouldn't change things too much. I wouldn't bother with the 205 computer either. Life will be easier if you use the 306 computer. Not using the GTI6 gearbox? Great box, but there are the same turning circle problems when you fit it in the 205 as the 306 I understand. I always thought the Gti6 motor would lift the 406 above its boring adequacy, could never understand why the factory didn't do it. So I'd like to do it oneday. Good luck
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Wow, 180bhp in a 205 GTi yeah, i've been spoken to by an old eccosse employee (or so he said) who now work for an A/C mob, said it was easier to keep the standard 306 6spd box and geta custom crossmember and driveshafts. The 306 computer will run the show best, and the crank angle sensor is needed so the computer knows when to fire , notice the lack of a distributor? Im no pro so his advice was to use the factory 306 computer, put 2.5 inch exhaust and a good cold air box setup, best done by moving the battery to the back in the hatch,mind the fumes and this set up will be close to 190-195 Hp with all the extrs, such as smooth idle, reasonable fuel economy, and u can run it on pulp fuel, also he sugested upgrading the fuel lines/tank pump. The a/c can be very fiddly, and upgarde your brakes!! pads atleast. The radiator will also need upgrading, why not a 306 unit? He also suggested better engine mounts, speak to any 306 owner with a not so new car and they wil tell you why.
    Dont forget to change the Timing Belt whilst its easy with the engine out!! and while its out migh aswell polish/ paint anythin you can see, make this conversion a very neat one aye!.
    By the way what are you doing with the 6spd /box?? im interested. Where did you buy the engine??
    Either way good luck, and enjoy your fruits of labor!
    Cheers xqisid
    ps bring it on a drive day to let all the froggies have a look.
    ... ptui!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    How much does this sort of conversion cost ?

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    Chris, who'd you speak to from Ecosse, Al?
    Is he in OZ or over there?
    PM me if you dont want to mention their name.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    SORRY Andreas, hes not here now, i met him on a construction site, he is an Air Con tech and he's gonne back to scotland, he only had a 1 year visa and then had to leave, you know imigration and stuff, i can only imagie he left eccosse to work on sites formore money as he said back then eccosse ( 5 years) were a lot smaller. i did get his email but he dosn't respond, imnot shure if i got it right as hes hard to grab ahold of.
    ... ptui!

  7. #7
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Why not an S16 donk? The iron block will take to supercharging nicly
    Hmm, 250hp in a FWD car mallet

    I will swap you the GTI6 engine for my S16 one. Only 60,000kms on it. approve
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  8. #8
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    cheers for the info guys - keep it coming!

    Bought the motor only(with wiring harness, computer and both manifolds - but forgot to request airflow meter...damn!!)from a local wrecker in Perth who found it in Sydney and freighted it here for me. Its a 99 model engine (so can't have more than 40-50,000km on it). Cost me $2750 but I consider myself lucky just to find one (had been searching for months).

    When its finished I think I will be very lucky to have change out of $5000. (I have a pretty good support crew within the business district I work - exhaust shops, auto sparkies etc). I should save a lot by doing all the time consuming work myself.

    Had seriously considered (and wanted) the 306 box but was a bit disappointed in the short gearing after a 306 test drive plus I was advised early in the piece(by someone at Eccosse funnily enough) that the 205 box would be a better/easier choice.

    Now that you mention it Xqisid, I was wondering where the dizzy was. I guess I'll need coil packs as well?

    Have already got a stainless steel back box, 2.25" pipe, new cat and Marcus Gronholms air filter (thats another story). Battery has been repositioned in the boot too.

    I'm on the scrounge for polyurethane engine mounts to update to shitty rubber ones - any clues where find these? Plus if anyone happens to have a 306 GTi6 airflow meter they're looking to offload, let me know. Maybe someone could suggest another induction sensing method that will send the appropriate signal to the computer.

    I will be sure to keep you all updated as the conversion develops (and I get stuck)

    Cheers
    Goat

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! PUG309's Avatar
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    Sounds like a nice upgrade

    as does 200hp NO2 Injectors, Caterpillar Bulldozer turbo charger and ahhh upgraded brake pads roll_lau

    Seriously... it should be fast (180HP in under 900kgs)

    Keep us informed of youur progress

    cheers!
    Daniel Djuracic

    Ex UK spec 89 309
    206 XT 1.6 16V (Diablo Red)with Peugeot Lion in back windows

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! PUG309's Avatar
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    If you put on quad throttle bodies and a suitable after market computer you will see nice numbers and wont need to worry about air flow meters

    I think 200HP is about standard for a GTI6 with throttle bodies???
    Daniel Djuracic

    Ex UK spec 89 309
    206 XT 1.6 16V (Diablo Red)with Peugeot Lion in back windows

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    What's this 180 bhp stuff? Did I miss something? The GTi6 engine was quoted at a perhaps optimistic 167bhp, Citroen called the same engine 162bhp. Nice motor (I've had three of them), but 180 bhp it aint. Mine went backwards with a fancy air-filter, but it sounded good.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  12. #12
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    My standard GTi-6 with 85,000Kms on it made 120hp at the wheels on a Dyno Dynamics, which is pretty well smack bang +/- 170hp given the benchmark 30% drivetrain loss. I realise the losses vary on each car, but it seems the car is developing something close to the mark. I don't think the power's over-rated, and on that note, Citroen quote the same 124Kw and 196Nm as Peugeot do.

    That engine in a 205 will be a dream! Creamy power delivery and a flat torque curve in a light weight car, yum!

    BTW Goat - I'm pretty sure the GTi-6 engines use a MAP sensor setup, no sign of an AFM in my car anywhere.... would photos of the engine in it's original place with intake plumbing etc help?

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    i thougt that with the mods hes done 180Bhp would be easy.....
    and im shure they have manifold air pressure sensors, i know my S16 has it..
    xqisid

    can't wait to see this...
    ... ptui!

  14. #14
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    yep your right - MAP sensed it is - which solves that problem. Now on to the others....

    It looks like the 306 computer I got with the engine is cactus - although until I actually connect it up I won't know for sure. According to Peugeot (Perth, the computers have some kind of inbuilt immobiliser which renders them useless once removed from the loom unless (a) they are taken out the car whilst the accessories are on or (b) they are removed within 10 seconds of turning the ignition off. Don't know if this is bullshit or not but I won't know for sure until it is all connected up. Anyone heard of this before.

    Anyway I found a local bloke who reckons he might be able to bypass the immobiliser. We wait for that one.

    Just wrapped the manifold in thermotec tape (which should reduce underbonnet temps a bit) and replaced the cam belt. Now waiting for gearbox linkage components to arrive from OS. After being quoted $1850 for the 6 speed box & $1300 for an S15 5sp box I think I will be able to modify the linkage on the existing 205 box to suit the pull-type arrangement on the 306 clutch for a fraction of the cost. (ie no need to source different driveshafts or fabricate crossmembers).

    Turns out the Series 2 205 box already has a crankangle sensor. With this and the speed sensor (on order) hopefully this will be all I'll need to get it operating properly.

    Keep you posted as it progresses.

    Goat

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    I have heard of his lock-down of the pug computer if its out of the car too long, as th guys at Silverwater Automtive Service , have mentined. BUT i have personally removed my ECU several times ndhave found no change whatsoever. Maybe the S16 ecu is very diferent to the Gti6.
    Are considering beffier underpinings at the front as the extra weight might throw the wonderfull go kart out a bit.
    once again good luck. If i where you id either look at a AC DELCO from a camira/s13 astra holden, or a good aftermarket unit such as EMS or WOLF 3D even better look at UK site for the PI or similar systems ( ps i LOVE PI gear
    xqisid
    ... ptui!

  16. #16
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    would there be very much difference in weight between the 205 and GTi-6 lumps ?
    i thought they would be pretty close especially if you are only going to change engines and basically leave the rest of the gear there
    i know the 6spd box would have to weigh a little more than the 5spd
    are you going to retain the GTI-6 exhaust manifold ?
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    MOst of the weight comes from the haavy fabricated stuff, but actaul long-block weights are similar but the GTI6 stuff being more heavy, also theres the bigger radiator to consider and all the little extras such as ALARM siren which im shure will be fitted if he wants to keep the car.
    xqisid
    ... ptui!

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