strut braces and roll cages
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    strut braces and roll cages

    Hi all,

    Is there any point putting in a strut brace if at a later stage you are going to put in a roll cage?
    Or is it correct in thinking that the roll cage stiffens the shell but doesn't really affect the strut towers flexing like the strut braces do? In a Mcpherson Strut setup- a fuego- will it have much benefit?

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    Cheers Ben

    ps found that two coils = 2 inches lower!! wink

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Renault17
    A roll cage will stiffen the chassis but have little effect on the strut towers unless it's a full cage with extensions to the front chassis rails incorporating the towers. Cutting coils from road car springs isn't a good idea as it alters the characteristics of the springs, most modern springs are not evenly spaced coils they are usually closer together at top & bottom putting the main stiffness at each end. the likley results could range from a very rough or harsh ride to a wishy washy hard to handle ride.
    I'd sugest a strut brace for any car that's going to be worked hard in corners with or without a cage.
    Having said this please note on my R10 i've taken 2 coils off each rear spring and one off each front spring, however i's running 3 deg neg camber rear and 2.5 neg camber front and is thus far an unknown quantity, it goes on the track for the first time since the rear end conversion was completed. On the 13th Oct. when done i'll post a report in the forum.

    dance
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
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    Damien Gardner:
    Renault17
    A roll cage will stiffen the chassis but have little effect on the strut towers unless it's a full cage with extensions to the front chassis rails incorporating the towers. Cutting coils from road car springs isn't a good idea as it alters the characteristics of the springs, most modern springs are not evenly spaced coils they are usually closer together at top & bottom putting the main stiffness at each end. the likley results could range from a very rough or harsh ride to a wishy washy hard to handle ride.
    I'd sugest a strut brace for any car that's going to be worked hard in corners with or without a cage.

    Hey Damien,

    the car is to be used for the track only, it's a 1981 fuego. I understand that altering the springs totally changes their characteristics- but as the whole car cost me $20......I'm loathe to spend lots of money on coil overs etc
    Anyway, what I have found is that cutting them to seat evenly in the strut takes too much height off, so I'll probably end up getting some new ones made up that aren't so low.
    head_ban
    I will be altering the camber too, probably about 2-2.5degrees negative on the front at least.

    One thing that bothers me is the lack of shock movement- probably less than 2 inches till it hits the bump stops!! Can you use longer stroke shocks- or does this stuff all the steering geometry up even further? Bear with me here, I am still learning about this stuff....

    Your 10 sounds pretty mad, I'll be keen to hear how those suspension mods work out.

    Cheers Ben

    Having said this please note on my R10 i've taken 2 coils off each rear spring and one off each front spring, however i's running 3 deg neg camber rear and 2.5 neg camber front and is thus far an unknown quantity, it goes on the track for the first time since the rear end conversion was completed. On the 13th Oct. when done i'll post a report in the forum.

    dance

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Hi Ben,
    Track car, go for the cut springs and don't worry about the limited shocker up travel being only a few inches, ripple strips should be the worst bumps you should encounter unless you have an ooooooh sh1t or two or as many have heard coming from the R10 ****--------ing heeeeeeeeell. The amount of neg camber equates roughly to the body roll ie. in the worst corners the outside tyres should ideally be flat on the road surface, the short hard ride will lower the CofG and with it the amount of body roll.
    I spoke with Dave C. this morn he confirmed my belief that cutting and re-welding the rear axle with the required amount of Neg camber is the accepted method, with some adaptor plates these could easily be made adjustable with the use of spacers as i've used on the R10 rear assembly.
    Sounds like a good project GO FOR IT !!!!!!!!!
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Ben,
    Just a thought on the shocks if you have problems you'd need a shorter shocker, do some rough measurements with the car on it's wheels after the coil cuts, ideally the shocker needs to be at about half travel at rest. If the bump stops are seperate to the shocks you could cut them shorter or reposition them to allow more travel keeping in mind they're there to stop excessive output shaft angles as much as anything else, and in removing 2 coils this angle has increased substancially.
    dance dance dance
    Cheers
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

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