strut brace & handling upgrade (more power wouldn't go a stray)
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Thread: strut brace & handling upgrade (more power wouldn't go a stray)

  1. #1
    s16
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    strut brace & handling upgrade (more power wouldn't go a stray)

    If anyone can give me some advice on strutbraces and any other handling upgrades would be nice. Ive read in Evo magazine that lowering can ruin the handling, cheap performance upgrades would be nice (do they exist). Any plce that can help me in melbourne that anyone knows would be a great help

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    '95 306 S16 - gone to a good home

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    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    G'day s16 and welcome to Aussiefrogs.
    Firstly, nice choice in ride.

    My S16 has been lowered on Eibach springs and I can tell you the handling still blows me away, but I bought the car lowered so I can't compare it to OEM springs. In recent drive days I have only found one car which tested my limits and that was a WRX driven by a good driver who knew the road well.

    I have had no problems keeping up with and loosing bikes (R6, GSXR750), 200SX's, MR2's, MX5's, SSS's, 180sx's all rice cookers. I have been on a drive with Cal of this forum who commented on how flat my car sits when on the limit.

    However the down side... quite harsh ride around the city along with having to watch out on speed bumps and curbs. To be honest unless you are going to put alot of time into going on hard drives on good quality roads, you may get a little tired of the go-cart handling with the firmness to match. Also note that I have replace the struts at the front so it's not a function of tighter shocks. I stuck with the OEM's on advice from Northshore racing who said the Koni's were not worth it and the Bilstiens are WAY too hard for road use.

    If I were you I would start with a good set of tires (made the biggest difference when I went from Dunlop W10's to Falken Azenis SP115), replace the shocks and bushes all around and try a strut brace. This should tighten the whole package up without loosing ride quality. Only then would I consider changing the springs etc.

    The plus of course is the S16 looks $hit hot lowered on 16/17inch rims.

    For some more go, try (possibly in this order) a high flow cat, cold air induction, unichip, flowed head (BIG gains to be had here), exhaust to match head with remapped chip, etc etc. With a few thousand dollars, close to 200hp should be realistic, however you may hit the limits of your fuel injectors first (about 196hp) depending on the type used in yours.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  3. #3
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    Hi guys
    My first time in the forum. I am preparing an '89 Mi16 with 211,000k on clock for Targa NZ tarmac events, hillclimbs,etc.
    My plans for engine are polish & port(reference to Puma Racing UK notes from web are bloody good, may consider using larger inlet valves as seals will take them) and rechipping with a Torque Master chip. NZ cars do not have cats, so cleaner(clearer) exhaust in place. Original headers v. good apparently.I want to retain 7000rpm limit due to moderate miles on engine, and std. engine copes with 7k revs no sweat for hillclimbs.
    Have fitted adjustable Konis all round, and seeking Eibach springs for 25mm lowering. Will rotate torsion bars 1 "notch" to lower rear for trim. Because of crowning of roads, washouts,etc it is too risky to take car any lower. Ride with front konis at min. firmness is good, and similar to OE struts, rear konis are set at mid point of 3 levels of hardness/rebound at present.
    Brakes. Am fitting Bradi(Italian) grooved front rotors with Mintex intermediate race/rally pads for Targa 6 day event. For all other hillclimbs,etc will use OE Pug pads. Will do a fluid exchange with Elf Dot 4 fluid.
    One of the most impressive improvements has come from using Yokohama A032R casings on std 15x6" Pug rims. Superb grip in dry and very good wet grip also. Gives huge confidence-have had about 2 yrs experience on absolutely std. '91 model Mi16 for hillclimbs with the Yokos.
    Cooling system. Having had 3 Mi16's till now,each one has had overheating problems early on. Ensure a good clean radiator and block, reliable thermostat,strong clamps on hoses, no rubbing of heater hoses near alternator pulley!! and a tested good pressure radiator cap.Plenty of inhibitor of course.
    I have always used synthetic or blended synthetic oil and changed my own pug filter when oil changed approx. once per year-typical mileage 10-12 km.pa.
    I can confirm what some others have said on forum about used Pug prices in NZ-Pugs like other Euros and rice rockets have all been devalued by flood of Jap imports. I got the 89 405 for $3500,with Reg,WOF and a good service history, air and a CD player.
    Thats enough waffle for now. Any proven ideas for further (lower cost) perf. mods for Mi16 will be gratefully considered.
    Cheers
    Mi16freak
    Ray Finkle likes this.

  4. #4
    Cal
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    Welcome to Aussie Frogs. Sounds like you have a sweet little club car there. I also have an 89 MI16 which I am sorting out to do some sprint events, hillclimbs and motorkanas. The car is in a more standard state than yours. Therefore I am of little use when it come to giving you advice on further mods other than what I have seen or read about.

    My car in on new standard struts at the front with Konis shocks on the rear. I have the Eibach springs on the front. I didn't fit Konis on the front because of advice given to me by a guy who runs one in Targa Tasmania. The engine and head have been rebuilt along with the steering rack and many other components. I have a K&N filter on the induction which I will build an air box around soon. I also run a 2 1/4 inch system with a high flow cat.

    I have read the larger valves are a good starting point for more performance. Then hotter cams. I'm not sure of the best profile. Someone else in here should be able to advise you on this. I think one of the MI16's biggest failings as a competion car is fuel surge while cornering. The best solution I have seen is an additional tank in the boot. The one I have seen was under the rear parcel shelf. It was a cube about 15cm in each dimension being made of aluminium. I idea is that this is full of fuel at all times and the fuel pick up is within. The other big problem is not being able to get any negative camber on the front wheels. The best solution I have seen for this is to cut and weld WRX front towers into the car. Easier said than done. Worth some thought though.

    I am interested to hear more about the rotors and pads you are running. What were the costs of these? I run the Yokohama A539's and love them. I have 14" rims not 15's and the cost per tyre is around $125ea. How much are the A032R's?

    I will discuss other mods that i know of soon.

    Cheers,

    Cal.

    <small>[ 27 September 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Cal ]</small>
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    Can any body point me in the right direction for the cheapest supplier of Eibach
    Springs in Brisbane or Australia. I have a 205gti and looking to upgrade the suspension.
    Finally can somebody please explain the term OEM’s as I have no idea what of what it means.

    mallet
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    sorry me english not that good eh. a_drink
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer (i think), and basically implies the part is made by the original manufacturer of the product. (ie, OEM Airfilters from Peugeot as compared to a K&N filter)
    Jason Judd
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  8. #8
    Cal
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    neil 416:
    sorry me english not that good eh. a_drink
    Don't you know how to edit a post either? Geez....get with the program! LOL (laugh out loud)

    Cal.
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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I've also gone with the Eibach and Koni suspension set up. I'm pleased to know that it is a good combo. Once I get them I and the car running again I'll let you know how she goes

    Hello Mi16freak, will u be my new best friend?
    I'm currently putting together a 205Mi16 as a road car and hopefully to get into some club motorsports.
    Man you certainly seem to know your stuff.
    I'm looking at upgrading my brakes, but am having a hard time swallowing shipping costs (NZ$300 from the uk). Who did you get your brakes off and can u reckonmend anyone? If not are you looking at selling you factory Mi16 brakes, I have have heard that these can be adapted to the 205.
    Cheers
    Izza

    P.S Are you going to watch Rally NZ or the Targa this year?

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hey Izza,

    if you buy the tarmac magazine (a kiwi one)they have a whole lot of reputable suppliers in there. There is an article in there on brakes for targa type cars this issue (October/November). I have dealt with Racebrakes- they are really good to deal with- Steve Currie I think is the guys name. Anyway, he can give you good advice, and competitive prices on fluid, pad and caliper/disc upgrades. It all just depends on how deep your pockets are really ....

    Ben

    ps I'm crewing for a mate on the targa- are you gonna follow it?? dance

  11. #11
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    hey
    re- targa, if you're entering the Targa Bambina, come and say HI. I'll be codriving the Humber 90 (again) and BTW drive what every self-respecting Mi16 wants to be.... a citroen BX16v... :-)

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    When is Targa NZ as a mate and i would be interested in entering a car in the not to distant future a_drink
    205GTI/Mi16
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    Oct 28th to Nov 2nd this year.
    See <a href="http://www.targa.co.nz" target="_blank">www.targa.co.nz</a>

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Hi all new guys!!
    The best/reasonable upgrade u can do to the engines in the Mi16/S16 is to fit a GTI6 exhaust manifold (and inlet manifold) and have the car dyno tuned, also if u can afford the $700 odd bucks fit a oil cooling kit (and remote filter), these will realy help preserve the engine, and MOBIL 1 is REALLY good stuff. I use it in my S16 and ive noticed the diference and ive had 4 years to compare. Also use BP Ultimate fuel.
    Cheers X
    ps get second hand 16" rims and contact racing outfits and see if they have, used 45 series racing slicks/tarmac rubber , cheap n easy way to get wicked handling.....
    ... ptui!

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    Not too sure the GTi6 exhaust manifold will fit, i lined it up to my spare 1.9 16v and it didn't seem to fit.
    It might fit the 2.0 though.

    The mi16 already has an oil cooler...and if you're paying $700 for one i hope it's huge with plenty of braided hoses.
    Universal ones sell for about $300+ ish.

    Why stop there?
    Why not fit throttle bodies, motec and cams???

    Andreas

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    ...and if you're paying $700 for one i hope it's huge with plenty of braided hoses.
    Universal ones sell for about $300+ ish.
    yeah i can get a big core for that, but $700 includes fitting, remote oil filter mount, themostat and braided lines, that's retail price too. Tx Andreas i thought all Mi16 were 2L, maybe the head/s are diferent but i know that the Gti6 maniflod fits the S16 head. Plus the inlet manifold of a GTi6 has a considerably bigger throttle body, 220Bhp is common from these engines with no quads/cams, just good basics/rebuild. Find me a box/shafts to handle the power?!
    Besides just add a Capa supercharger and get the GrpN Drive-train (6speed, short ratio, LSD and better shafts), 260 Bhp baby! any more would be a waste on a FWD. X
    ... ptui!

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i might be really wrong here but i can't see the GTI6 exhaust manifold fitting on the MI-16 head

    mi's have 8 exhaust ports GTi's have 4
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  18. #18
    Cal
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    [quote]xqisid:
    ...Plus the inlet manifold of a GTi6 has a considerably bigger throttle body, 220Bhp is common from these engines with no quads/cams, just good basics/rebuild. X
    Are you sure about that? I wasn't aware there is anything common about 220hp from one without any major mods!

    Cal.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You won't get much more out of a Series 1 XU9J4Z without some more compression. You can add cams but it won't go much harder than stock. You need the pistons from an XU9J4, or forged. Don't forget to advance the inlet cam 4 degrees. A Series 2/S16 has more compression, 10.4:1, so should respond to more cam timing. I think the first item, is to remove the AFM and fit an after market ECU. The AFM is a known restriction. But this is all a waste of time if you're running stock injectors. I think they're only good for 170hp. I couldn't get my Mi16 to run any richer, regardless of the injection time.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  20. #20
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Peter T - I investigated the Max HP from S16 (XU10J4) injectors a while back and the reponse was the check the item numbers on the injectors as there were several types which were used, hence some had more capacity then others.

    Andreas has regularly stated 49hp/inj (196hp) (thereabouts) for the XU9 and XU10 engines though.

    Is it possible to change the timing of the S16 engine as you stated through simple tuning or does it require more effort/$$$?

    What type of changes would be seen in HP and drivability/fuel usage?
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The cam timing mod. I suggested is for the XU9J4Z only. It has the inlet cam retarded 4 degrees in order to reduce emissions.

    I'm not sure how Andreas gets his data, but if you have a look at <a href="http://www.205gti.com," target="_blank">www.205gti.com,</a> there is a page with some Bosch injectors. The 205/309 (405) injector is rated at 214cc. If you use the suggested formula, you get 165hp from this injector.

    I can't get this injector in my XU9J4 Mi16 to run any richer. It doesn't matter whether I use 8ms or 10ms for the 5000rpm map, the mixture stays the same. At 8ms, the duty cycle is 80%, the recommended maximum.

    The injectors in the XU10J4 may well be different.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    That's right PeterT.
    Phasis, when i've mentioned 196bhp that was regarding the power level I got with the standard injectors...it was pinging though.
    No matter what other mods may have been done it wasn't going to give me any more power than that.
    I've now got 300cc injectors.

    Andreas

    PS 220bhp from a GTi6, i know they've claimed it but i doubt it.

  23. #23
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    [quote]xqisid:
    Find me a box/shafts to handle the power?!
    Besides just add a Capa supercharger and get the GrpN Drive-train (6speed, short ratio, LSD and better shafts), 260 Bhp baby! any more would be a waste on a FWD. X
    Hey xqisid - do you know the GTi-6 drive shafts are thicker items than what the Nissan GTR has? I think problems will stem from CVs and gearbox first, most likely... They are quite massive, over an inch in diameter. I believe they were used as flexing of driveshafts from torque in a FWD contributes to torque steer.

    RE handling mods, I'd go tyres & decent alignment first, then I'd look at some Eibach springs (it seems to me swaybars are hard to come by for Peugeots) and a strut brace. Whiteline looked at my car, and they can make up a strut brace & lower brace relatively cheaply. As a final step, I believe Peugeot Sport adjustable pillow ball style strut tops are available.

    Cheers,
    Adrian

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Andreas, I am aiming for 200bhp for my mi16, PeterT suggested magna injectors, do you have any thoughts on this matter. Which particular Magna are we talking about I wonder. Are the bigger injectors enough or do you need to increase fuel pressure?
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span><span class=ResizableText0> [quote]Originally</span> posted by ntrx: <span class=ResizableText0><strong>
    Hey</span> xqisid - do you know the GTi-6 drive shafts are thicker items than what the Nissan GTR has? I think problems will stem from CVs and gearbox first, most likely... They are quite massive, over an inch in diameter. I believe they
    were used as flexing of <span class=ResizableText0>driveshafts</span> from torque in a FWD <span class=ResizableText0>contributes</span> to torque steer. RE handling mods, I'd go tyres & decent alignment first, then I'd look at some Eibach springs (it seems to me swaybars are hard to come by for Peugeots) and a strut brace. Whiteline looked at my car, and they can make up a strut brace & lower brace <span class=ResizableText0>relatively</span> cheaply. As a final step, I believe Peugeot Sport <span class=ResizableText0>adjustable</span> pillow ball style strut tops are <span class=ResizableText0>available.</span>
    Cheers, <span class=ResizableText0>Adrian
    </span> </span>
    NTRX i agree with te handling mods, i notice u too use local guys instead of importing/UK gear, whiteline too have helped me out.
    Re drive shaft and g/box, syncros inboth the 6spd and s16 5spd are particularly easy to wear thus leading to a busted box, CV's aren;t too bad but do have their limits, drive shafts inparticular the smaller one (lhs) i think are prone to snaping/warping under load, but only really when Hp is 190 or over, not so much on a road car but both PugPerformace and Esscargo have found this to be a bit of a weak link. Esscargos rally car Gti 6 engine makes 220Bhp, but i've failed to ask if their engine builder changed the injectors. All of these things are from peoples opinions, so make of that what u will. TRX is your Gti6 blue? with crossdrilled discs and lowered?
    xqisid.
    ps andreas sold the car yet?
    ... ptui!

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