clutch and injectors
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200

    clutch and injectors

    seeing as i'm a moderator i thought i'd start ea new topic so that i dont get told off by the big boss

    I need a new clutch, the standard one wont cope so i have to look at aftermarket options.
    An AP paddle clutch has been recommended, not too heavy and has good bite.
    The 405 is mny daily driver and gets its fair share of city driving.
    Any suggestions?

    And back to the injectors, if i fit larger injectors and i'm easy on the throttle will the fuel consumption increase?
    As in, if it's getting adequate fuelling at 3000rpm now will it still use the same amoutn of fuel later with larger injectors?
    I assume only when the fuel is neded will more be pumped in?

    And lastly, when petrol can be smelt from the exhaust, what does it mean?
    I've been told it means it's running rich, some say you dont smell anything when it's running rich and that it means it's running lean?
    Anybody know the real answer?

    Andreas

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,446
    Bigger injections won't increase fuel consumption. They will just make it more difficult to achieve finer tuning of mixtures at lower RPM. If you increase a fuel bar by 10% in time, 10% more fuel will be delivered. 10% of 300cc is more than 10% of 240cc, so mixtures will change more rapily. If your software has very fine increments it won't be an issue.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,446
    As for the fuel, I'm not sure. You can definitely smell an excessively rich mixture though. Do you still have an O2 sensor? If so, is it hooked up to the ECU? You should be able to read the mixtures in real time as a voltage. If it's still mounted but not connected, leave the 12volt supply attached and run the other two wires into the cabin. Buy a cheap multimeter if you don't have one. Set it to read 0-1 volt. You should see mixtures ranging from 0.6 (cruise) to 0.9 approx (idle). Full power should be 0.8 -0.9v. If it's greater than 1 volt at any stage it's heaps too rich. If its lower than 0.6 it's leaner than 14.7:1. You should only see lean figures on overrun. The 12 volt supply is needed to heat the sensor in order to read idle mixtures.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302
    Andreas,

    I would get the car back on the dyno and let them test it with there wide band oxygen sensors
    They usually use temperature corrected meters

    Murat

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    how's this for fuel consumption.
    51 litres of optimax, 249km

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302

    Andreas we should put a lexus v8 in there for u man lot more power
    Also more economical LoL to boot

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    do you want to try?

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    If they can fit the cosworth motor and running gear into a 205...it's got me thinking!
    RB30
    SR20DET, i've seen a pic of that in a 505.
    or a 1.5 8v excel motor?

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302

    Andreas you have a got a lot more room than me
    I will ask the automotive engineer what is involved in building a fwd to rwd they will most likely want it full chassis or use a floor pan that is thicker
    dont worry i will ask him when i get the turbo setup fully engineered
    Hey why not i am not going to pay him 300-400 dollars for nothing

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    how far is the turbo from completion?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302
    Don't ask i have bought a second hand T25 water cooled
    I can't make a To3 size turbo and manifold fit without mods to the expantion tank with this turbo i wont be changing anything and it will be very simple and effective setup good for 225hp max with this turbo.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    T25 will do for now anyway, but you should've asked me first seeing as i'll buy the car when you sell it LOL
    are the other plans also going to happen, you know the ones involving the metal fabrication on the exterior?
    i wont say what it is in case it's supposed to be a secret.

    so when are we starting the 405 engine?
    twin turbo V6?
    hehehe

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302
    Andreas,

    Everything is going to plan
    What i did not want to do was to modify the expantion tank
    Seeming it is only going to be putting out about 175-200hp the t 25 will be enough for this setup
    I made sure the turbo had a high A/R ratio u have to be carefull as the 1.9 8v is a big 4 and you dont want a small t25
    Don't worry they have t25 that flow well over 300hp without any changes to the comp or turbine housings
    I will leave the body the way it is untill the mechanicals are completed and then think about it
    As soon as i am finished i want to pick up a twin cam and go from there
    Dont think a v6 twin turbo has not crossed my mind
    Andreas it is best to complete one thing and then plan for the next
    What do you want it in LoL

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    i saw a pic of a ferrari on the fowles site (damaged auction), now that motor would be sweet in a 205

    I've got a mate in the UK who is building his own 1.9 8v turbo, he's going for 220bhp i think.
    complete one thing and then plan for the next?
    how about spending big on a motor that ultimately will end in another car?
    i'm speaking of the mi16.



  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302
    Andreas,

    How well do you know that guy in the uk doing the turbo setup
    I am only doing a basic setup without changing virtually anything thats my challenge
    I for one think that a 1.9 8v will not be reliable at 220hp
    So i wont waste my time chasing power from a engine that i believe would be a waste of money compared to a xu10 engine that you could push to around 350hp
    How far has he got to go as i would love to hear from someone who is putting effort into putting a turbo in a 205 as it is a lot of work
    I have already put over 100 hrs into the setup
    I think i know what you mean a 205 with a certain mi16 engine with throttle bodies would go very well but i dont think it will be very economical LOL
    Maybe we will have competition for the skyline 3.0L turbo we built the funny thing is it gets 100kms to ten litres of optimax and still can nearly dust off a dodge viper and dusts off LS1 250kw at will
    You have to experience driving it man it flies
    Sorry i am in the writing mood i am on holidays

    Murat

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    just remembered, the mate with the 205 turbo...it's a TT conversion and he's modified it himslef now.
    i'll find out what i can.

    i really need a clutch now, anybody have any experience with an AP racing paddle clutch?

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    Murat, can you email me the contact details of your engineer or post them here if you dont mind.

    I know having all receipts in hand will save time and money, how exactly does it work?
    What do they do?
    What are the costs, i've heard anything from $300 to $2000, obviously if you have no record of the mods it'll take them longer wont it.

    Andreas

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302
    Andreas,

    I have not got a engineer to deal with to be honest
    In the past our setups were clean setups but did not have any approval
    I posted it would cost about 300 dollars because that is what i have heard
    I know for certain that they have to be appointed by the rta in vic so you can not go to any engineer even if he is an automotive engineer
    When i am ready i will just speak to a couple of people who have had experience with a certified engineer thats on the rta list and try them
    Sorry i cant be of much assistance
    What do you need an engineer for?

    Murat

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    no real reason, just curious
    and seeign i know a few people getting canaried often and some that get pulled over and have an engineers report 12 pages long i figured it'd be cheaper in the long run.

    got so many other things to do first though before i go spending more money.
    3 weeks to Auto Salon....will i make it!?!?!

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    back to the injectors, thanks for your help so far
    bosch doesnt have much in stock (in the 300-3400cc range) at the moment, but they do have a 346cc injector.
    that's a big jump from the 214cc injectors i'm using now, over 60% but then again the power increase is about 40%.
    So what do you think, is it too much, i'm aiming for 220bhp, probably only be 210bhp.
    will my low range driveability suffer at all?

    i want to buy them new that's why there are problems finding a suitable injector, dont want used injectors that i need to test/clean just in case, too many problems in the past buying used parts.

    and then comes the fuel pump, will that be big wnough?
    i dont want to go replacing that aswell as $$$ are an issue, but i'm not trying to cut corners either.


    And to confuse me even more i was told that the 300cc injectors would be adequate by the people that will map it.
    worst case scenario is that i may need to fit an adjustable fuel reg, assuming that'll be the end of my mods to the motor.

    they reason they dont want me to fit the larger 346cc ones is to do with the low rpm tuning as mentioned by PeterT.
    i cant find any part numbers for injectors between the 300cc and 337cc bosch ones (out of stock), there must be some out there?
    they'd be perfect.

    Andreas

    [This message has been edited by Andreas (edited 05 July 2001).]

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302
    Andreas,

    Why would you need a adjustable fuel regulator
    Are the 346cc injectors high impedence or low impedence
    Motec engine managements have very good resolution so why cant they tune a relatively small injector
    I have heard they can tune injectors over 500cc and still keep idle quality with a quality engine management system like a motec

    Murat

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    adjustable fuel reg to pump up the pressure to 3.5 bar or thereabouts if the 300cc injectors were just lacking by a fraction.
    i dont know what to do at the moment, most likely i'll end up getting the 346cc injuctors, $170 each $270 retail apparently, just cos Porsche use them!
    even considered an 8 injector setup but i'm using a M4...but then if it were possible we start getting too serious with the $$$

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Victoria
    Posts
    302


    Andreas you are getting me confused
    I am going to try and help
    Now if you use a adjustable fuel reg and bump up fuel pressure to 3.5 bar
    Then wouldn't you run into problems that the people you dealing with want to avoid in the first place that is trying to get enough fuel up in the upper power range while keeping things acceptable in the lower ranges
    Think about it
    Because if u bump up the pressure to 3.5 bar u will have 3.5 bar of pressure at idle as well
    The injectors will then flow more per injector pulse width
    Andreas it is a vicious circle
    I would only accept the correct injectors
    You don't want to pay for things u dont need ex adjustable fuel regulator
    your m4 should have the resolution for the 346cc injectors anyway isn't that what you pay the extra money for
    Hope this helps

    Murat

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,446
    Increasing the pressure from 3 to 3.5 bar will result in an 8% increase in flow rate. ie 214 x 1.08 = 231

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,200
    if i dont make any sense it's because i've been sniffing mdf and other stuff, building a sub box.

    i dont want to go and buy the 346cc injectors and then have problems with them being too big, once i've got them i'm stuck with them.
    i thought adjustable pressure regs only incresed the pressure when needed, isnt that what rising rate means?
    it looks like i'm going to go out and buy the 346cc ones.

    btw the 214cc i have now is at 2.5 bar, whereas the 346cc is at 3 bar.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •