How do 205 rear drums do on the track?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    How do 205 rear drums do on the track?

    Anybody out there ever taken the early model 205 gti on the track with the stock brakes. Does the car do alright with them? I was just wondering how much of a difference rear breaks will do to my stopping distance. I've been told before that the drums are alright on the 205 coz its so light. What does it cost to convert to discs anyway and is it easy? Do I need to upgrade the main booster thingy? Other question: Is it worth getting greenstuff pads as everyone seems to think here? What is the difference between greenstuff and stock pads? Is it about wearability?

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    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Ok. Well I have a UK 205GTI (84 model so rego papers say) that has the drum brake rear. I am getting Greenstuff pads on the front with DOT5 brake fluid and using the standard front rotors for the time being until I get either DBA or EBC rotors.

    I will be taking the car to the track next Tuesday so I will be able to tell you how it goes after that.

    From what I have been told its really not worth the hassle of going to a disk rear as the fronts do most of the braking anyway. As you are probably aware the rears will lock up anyway, even with the drums, because as you say, they are such a light car, with no weight at the rear.

    Mine will be even worse I imagine as I will be stripping out all the interior besides the 2 front seats, so even less weight will be on the rears.

    Darren

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    No problem whatsoever on the track. My car would get to red line at Phillip Island and with the subsequent braking, the drums were spot on. Just make sure the fluid is ok. Dont even think about discs. The car only weighs 850 odd kg's
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Stock pads are good in a 205.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Hmm, yellow!!! You let the cat out the bag!!! No interior!!! I might have to produce something special as well then.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! PUG309's Avatar
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    If you can get there rear wheels of the ground brakes on the back are pretty much useless
    Daniel Djuracic

    Ex UK spec 89 309
    206 XT 1.6 16V (Diablo Red)with Peugeot Lion in back windows

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Good point Daniel.

    Parry. How are your brakes now with the DBA rotors upfront and the EBC pads and fluid?

    Darren

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    I have noticed a hug difference in stopping power, but all its does is lock up easier, the test will be how long they last.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hmmmmmmm ...you guys ar taking interiors out??....i wonder if its really worth it in regards to weight saving??...the reason i say this..is that my interior is out at the moment (restoration purposes) and i d say one could EASILY carry the rear seat and carpet without any hassles...so we r looking at what 20 odd KGs...i think even the spare weighs more...IF you really want to cut weight YOU would have to take the SPARE tyre of, and the passanger seat because thats where 95% of the weight is....on another note wether u save much weight or not I must ADMIT it looks a LOT RACIER without the interior...

    cheers
    dino

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Who said that the passenger said wouldn't being coming out as well? Nah, it will stay in this time, purely because my g/f wants to do a few laps in the car with me. And when I say the interior being stripped, I mean seats, carpet, centre console, all interior plastics besides the door trims and dash, rear speakers and stereo. Basically anything I can remove, will be removed. I would take the door trims out too if it wasn't for the electric windows.

    And the spare tyre will be removed while on the track as well.

    By removing all this I would say that it would have to be up around 50kg. Thats a small person. I know that 1 extra person makes a HUGE difference in my car.

    Then I will be looking at racing buckets that are MUCH lighter than the factory seats. And also going to an Oddysey battery and removing that abortion they call inlet plumbing and making it a LOT shorter.

    There is heaps you can do to reduce weight if you look hard enough without going to the ridiculous extreme of making the car unsafe by cutting holes in the bodywork etc.

    I'm going to weigh all the stuff I take out so will let you know what weighs what and just how much I did take out.

    I'm good at pulling things apart.

    Darren

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    The biggest improvement for me to loose some weight. I will not be stripping the interior from my car, 205 interiors are flimsy already.

    Did you get some slicks for Tuesday Yello?
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Parry.

    I got these tyres.

    <img src="http://www.audituning.com/ovrigt/dack.jpg" alt=" - " />

    They are Bridgestone RE540's. They are a semi-slick as evidenced by the tread pattern. They are legal on the street. Good for about 10,000km. head_ban

    Darren

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    Thanks Warrick... You always give me quick concise answers.

    Just in case anyone is still reading this thread;-
    how much does it cost (broken down) to change the pads, calipers, break fluid.

    Is there anyway to check if the break fluid is ok?

    My handbrake needs adjusting... How much does it cost to change the cable? How easy is it to check if the drums need replacing (ie how do they wear)? Is it hard to change them over? How much are they? Hehe they should keep someone busy for a while

    P.S. My handbrake cable is so loose ( at least i hope thats what it is) that when i'm going up a hill the "BRAKE" light comes on on the dash.
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I had a brake master cylinder brace mad up as well for my car. It will stop the firewall flexing when the brake pedal is pressed firmly.

    Darren

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Most S1 owners dont bother changing to discs but, they do change the fronts and have dot4 or better fluid put in.
    As for weight saving, even 1/2 a kilo is noticeable because of the inertia the extra weight carries in and onto the corner, true down the straight not much diff, but as Darren's done i have a PERMENANTLY stripped out car. Its not for the straight line, its for corner weight and inertia carry.
    Xq

    ps, i keep the spare in as wihtout it my set-up on the car wants to Oversteer a little too much, i hence use the spare (they sit reely low in a 306) as a weight ballast to stabilise the car, especially on lift of oversteer.
    ... ptui!

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Brake fluid costs nothing almost. Just bleed it through the system wheel at a time. I'll tell you how if you want. It's easy. Just need a spanner or two. The fluid should be a bright colour. If its got black dust and crap in it, it needs changing. Calipers can prolly be rebuilt. Would need to look at the rear shoes and wheel cylinders. Cylinders dont last all that long.
    Pads prolly cost $80 or so. No idea. Easy to fit. Ring EUropean auto imports in Box Hill ( I think they are called). Ask about caliper reco kits I guess. All this stuff you can do without knowing anything. Just a bit of common sense and a couple of tools.
    Just learn to get your hands dirty, and you will learn how not to get shafted when you do get repairs done.
    Handbrake can prolly be tightened. Never looked. Dunno. Good luck
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    Ilooked up how to tighten the handbrake cable in the Haynes Manual thing and it says I should tighten it so that at the third from last handbrake click the drums on both wheels are at full tightness or whatever would be the right word...
    To do this i need to jack up the back two wheels and take the wheels off. I don't have a jack apart from the one that the car came with. Do you think its ok to just tighten the handbrake without looking at the drums? Haynes manual said it was necessary not over-tighten cable because the drums would use this to automatically adjust their pressure.
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    Well I just tightened the handbrake by guessing how tight it should be. It was way too slack b4 so tightening a little can't do much harm
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    It may be the case that the rear brake shoes in the drums needed adjusting instead of the handbrake. But I forget how all this works in the 205 rear. You really do need to have a look at the rear linings if you are gonna go on the track. Especially to check out the wheel cylinders in the drums. If you dunno how to get the drums apart, or aren't confident, pay someone. It won't cost much. But if you need cylinders and shoes get non-genuine from European auto imports or speak to MArk at STraightway who is a good guy.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    I just went to redo my handbrake. I did what the haynes manual said without jacking both wheels up at the same time. I jacked one wheel up and then pulled the h/brake on to the 7th click then...

    (The haynes manual said adjust the nut of the compensator "so that both rear wheels are just binding on the break shoes", I didn't take the wheel off but I interpreted this as when the wheel just starts to experience a resistance all the way around the wheel.) Once I had adjusted it to being just frictional I put the wheel down and decided that i had better check the other one and make sure. With the handbrake off the other wheel (left rear) was completely stuck! So then, thinking that my brakes might catch alight, I adjusted the handbrake to match the left wheel and I had basically no handbrake when I tested it. What does this mean? I can't imagine why two wheels would wear so differently. I think i'm going to take them to my mechanic if it's not simple to fix.


    cry cry cry
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

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