Peugeot 504 Question
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  1. #1
    EMC
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    Default Peugeot 504 Question

    hi everyone,
    I'm a proud owner of a 1979 Peugeot 504GL(manual wink ) and have just come across this board and have registered today.

    I don't think i know that much about cars, modifications, internal workings etc, and was wondering where I can learn stuff

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    any comments would help,
    peugeot_ peugeot_

    <small>[ 18 March 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: EMC ]</small>
    Last edited by EMC; 1st July 2005 at 04:42 PM.
    1979 Peugeot 504 GL

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Better if you learn to do it yourself...

    Dave McBean's website has a lot of information in this regard...

    But mostly it's a matter of leaving well enough alone. The brakes are fair, you might gain a little out of slightly wider wheels, there are little things you can do here and there.

    Best thing might be to look over some of the threads on the various subjects in this particular part of the forum, and in the Peugeot forum, and then ask questions as they arise.

    And welcome to our happy forum... how did you find us?

  3. #3
    EMC
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    ok, will do

    and i found this site just by searching around peugeot links and search engines in Australia ^_^
    1979 Peugeot 504 GL

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    welcome to the forum....
    i m clueless when it comes to 504s (although i seem to know them inside out when there is a bond girl around)but hang around (visit us regulary)and you will get all the information u desire....

    cheers
    dino

    PS...take your time when making modifying decisions (i m sure some of our 504 owners preffer to keep them as original as possible), do the resarch and you ll be happier with your decisions....

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Drop in a 5 speed box from a 505.
    Apart from that, unless you are going to race it, they are fantastic as they are.
    My father had a string of 504s when I was very young, from a 1970 1.8L to an early 80s Diesel, and they were fantastic. We lived 200km west of Bourke, on a rough road full of potholes. The average life of a new car there was 1 to 2 years before metal fatigue set in, but each 504 lasted several years, and were as good as new when traded in.
    Pugs Rule!

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  6. #6
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Pugnut403:
    Drop in a 5 speed box from a 505..
    Just be careful with buying a 5 speed. They're expensive, they're not as durable as the 4 speed and the gearshift is pretty dodgy compared to the 4 speed (but this can be fixed easily enough). Economy doesn't seem to change much with the 5 speed either (not enough to justify the purchase). The main advantages of the 5 speed are slightly lower noise levels and less oil leaks (due to better position of the gear selector pivot shaft).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    on a side note
    is anyone interested in a 504 diesel ?
    i know of one that is for sale
    i will find out in more detail what the car is like condition wise and mechanicaly
    i will be talking to the people again in the next few days regarding this car
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  8. #8
    EMC
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    yeah, i've had it for a few years now (since before i got my licence ) and i can understand why people love them. On average I get people asking to buy it off me at least every 2-4 months :p

    I haven't got my mind set on doing anything to it, i just wanted to know what, if anything, *could* be done. At the moment (and as far as i can see into the future) I'm not going to sell it, so it doesnt really matter whether it's easily sellable.

    I've noticed quite a bit (in my oppinion) of body roll, is there an easy, or more importantly not too expensive(i'm a student :p ) way of reducing this?

    ^_^
    1979 Peugeot 504 GL

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! frogs4ever's Avatar
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    EMC:

    I've noticed quite a bit (in my oppinion) of body roll, is there an easy, or more importantly not too expensive(i'm a student :p ) way of reducing this?
    ^_^
    Body roll is a natural part of French cars, because most of them have soft, long travel suspension, though with stiff dampers. This is why they ride so well, and corner so well on crap roads. You could go to stiffer anti roll bars, but this is likely to actually reduce the grip levels on anything but really smooth roads.
    2004 Clio Expression Verve 4sp auto -
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    French cars, Australian wine.

  10. #10
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    frogs4ever:
    You could go to stiffer anti roll bars, but this is likely to actually reduce the grip levels on anything but really smooth roads.
    No actually, 1mm thicker front and rear sway bars work quite well on 504s (27mm instead of 26mm at the front, 19mm instead of 18mm at the rear). I've used these on both my 504 and 505 and they seem ideal for the car. Anything stiffer than those however would probably reduce grip as you say.

    You can get the 27mm front bar from a 505 GTI or STI and the 19mm rear bar from a 604 (you just have tio file another flat spot for the brake compesator mechanism). You can also buy new swaybars from K-mac, but they cost about $240 each.

    I also used 505 GTI springs on my 504 and they reduced the bodyroll a bit further in conjunction with the swaybars, but the ride wasn't as good as with the stock 504 springs and big swaybars. The GTI springs are not too stiff, but they feel like if they were any stiffer they would be.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    dave is on the money there
    i used to run a twin sway bar on the front of mine and i found it to be really good with a set of pedders aftermarket springs and good shocks
    the rear i left standard sway bar but placed in pedders springs there with koni adjustable shocks
    the rear end of 504's really only need a tidy up after all these years and the fronts you can modify a bit more to gain good grip levels and reduce roll
    some on here will disagree with my hatred towards roll in an early pug but after doing many miles in a few 504's and 604's over the years both with and without body roll i prefer the non body roll versions
    in the end it's up to you but a good suspension tidy up is as good as any unless you really want a lot more from the car

    over to you dave
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  12. #12
    nJm
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    I don't mind the body roll, has been a bit of a party trick for initiating people with a non-froggy background in cars . I have been meaning to go look for some stiffer sway bars off a 505GTi or 604. I assume they are relatively easy to fit myself? My main gripe with the body roll is it reduces cornering speed and it gets a bit uncomfortable having to brace yourself against the window when going hard right turns clown .

    <a href="http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QQCvBNcRoCs2RsalY04y7kskGezD06uWB!wq8kxRYLp58T*xs G2DEVsz8H3BMrPWPUTiwZOkZ00ldkIFPM6VBvQ5GMoxMl7wP91 vdSgVacc/tv000036.jpg" target="_blank">504 from Bond Movie demonstrating body roll</a>

    <a href="http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDdAhgTuHc2DbagOPjxKY0*7anXUogRlTl66iHpp3Q1nH0xv *9PXJHW60XeivZcZxXLnRb6fVqowYR*Baaw7tSlZat0YY8WJNz FOE7Mukk/505corner1.jpg" target="_blank">Early 505 Diesel sliding (or pitching??) around a corner in a Wheels mag test</a>

    <small>[ 19 March 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: nJm ]</small>
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  13. #13
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    nJm:
    I have been meaning to go look for some stiffer sway bars off a 505GTi or 604. I assume they are relatively easy to fit myself?
    Yes usually they are, but sometimes you can run into problems. Just ask peujohn! Although part of John's problem may have been manufacturing error in the 27mm K-mac front bar I got for him (sorry John!). A 505 STI/GTI 27mm front bar should fit straight on your GR.

    One problem with the rear bar is that sometimes the body bracing behind the diff gets in the way of fitting the thicker bar past the diff as you put it in. On my 505 I just bent this bracing out of the way a little bit (or a lot! ).

    To fit the 604 rear bar, you will also need the brake compensator attachement from a 504, because the one from the 505 is way too small (unless you have a GTI). You also have to file a flat spot in the appropriate spot for the attachement to clamp onto, because the 604 flat spot is in the wrong position.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  14. #14
    nJm
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    Hmm, well for now (well, when I've got a little bit of money free) I'll do the front, and the rear can wait until I have more time and so forth.

    Would just sticking a GTi one in the front help things noticably?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    It will probably increase the understeer...

  16. #16
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    Nick,
    Put a 504 bar on the rear, dirt cheap and really makes a difference to a GR.

    Graham Wallis

  17. #17
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Peujohn reporting.

    I had no trouble at all fitting the 604 rear bar to my 504, I didn't have to bend anything out of the way. The only boo-boo I did was assume the existing flat spot on the bar (for the brake comp valve) was correct. So I bolted it all in and when I got to fitting the valve it wouldn't go. Other than this no probs.

    I did have some trouble fitting the front Kmac bar, but it was definitely worth it. The car now handles very well, but still rides the same. I'd recommend the bigger sway bars to anyone.

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  18. #18
    nJm
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    Graham or Dave, would I run into the same problems if I tried fitting a 504 rear bar instead of a 604 bar?

    Just curious - why on earth did Peugeot give the 505 a thinner bar than the 504?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  19. #19
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    nJm:
    Graham or Dave, would I run into the same problems if I tried fitting a 504 rear bar instead of a 604 bar?
    Maybe, maybe not, I think the distance varies between the diff and body bracing, from car to car, depending on manufacturing tolerances.

    I don't know why they only fitted a 16mm rear bar to 505s, seeing as the 504 has an 18mm one. Maybe it saved them a little bit of money in materials. On my sister's Honda Civic CXi, Honda neglected to fit any swaybars at all, in the interests of keeping the price down to around $20,000.

    If you were to just make one change, I think the 504 rear swaybar would make a bigger difference than fitting the 27mm front bar. The handling balance with the stock 26mm front bar and the 18mm 504 front bar would be good too, although my 505 STI was OK with the 27mm front bar and 16mm rear bar, when it had the stock GR springs. When I put stiffer springs in, it understeered like crazy and really needed the stiffer rear bar.

    John should have a spare 504 rear swaybar lying about now (I've got heaps!).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  20. #20
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    I have found it impossible to get bushes for the 604 bar, had to file out 504 bushes!
    You have to file the compensator arm slightly to fit the 504 bar.
    The 604 bar needs slightly more modification in this area.
    I am sure that the small bar was not to save money, probably a miscalculation but still a bit hard to believe as the ride certainly is not affected.

    Graham Wallis

  21. #21
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    John should have a spare 504 rear swaybar lying about now
    I have, but why not fit the 604 bar and a 505 GTi front bar? These two virtually should bolt straight in and the improvement would be greater.

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  22. #22
    nJm
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    How much should I be paying for bars off a 504/604?

    Tomorrow I'm handing over around $630 for having my rear calipers rebuilt, new brake master cylinder, new handbrake cables etc. I am completely broke! Damn those expensive uni text books disappro .
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  23. #23
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    I have found it impossible to get bushes for the 604 bar, had to file out 504 bushes!
    Graham,

    I never bothered filing them out, just stuck the 504 bushes in and did the bolts up and they deformed around the 604 bar without a problem. They were not new bushes, however.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  24. #24
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    I never bothered filing them out, just stuck the 504 bushes in and did the bolts up and they deformed around the 604 bar without a problem. They were not new bushes, however. Yep, I did the same.

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    (or rather can my trusty Pug mechanic)
    Trust I dont know about that. Best to check it out for yourself. That keeps the mods cheap. Also it mean you are not limited by your mechanic and his objection to every idea you may have.

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