Extractors???
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Thread: Extractors???

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Extractors???

    I've got a peugeot 205 gti 1.9 and my manifold has cracked and needs replacing.

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    I was thinking about replacing it with extractors however i've heard the factory setup of the peugeot exhausts and intakes are pretty good so is it worth the extra $200 for extractors?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I wouldnt bother. I take you'd get some made up here in NZ?
    The factory ones are very good as they are and chances are VERY few places out hear have worked on a 205 GTi, let alone perfomace tuning one.
    And at the end of the day the gains are going to be very minimal, 5 bhp max, and that's being pretty generous.

    I'd save your money for some headwork hig comp pistons or cams etc.

    Good to see you on Eddie's register. Welcome aboard.
    Is yours a NZ or Jap import?

    Izza

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Cheers for the info, the tuning guys weren't too keen on doing it, they thought it might be a bit "tricky".

    It is an import actually back in '93 or '94. I'm looking at a cam from a 309 gti thats had $130 worth work done on it down in Christchurch, should give me that few extra hp.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    How much is the factory manifold??

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    The factory manifold is roughly $400 plus labour, the extractors are $550 i'm not sure wether that would include labour though, i didnt go into that much detail with him.

    What are the risks in getting extractors though? Is it possible that i may lose some power?

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    extractors latest thinking!!!!!
    In the past emphasis was placed on getting all pipes the same length. My Dyno bloke Albert Lamb in Daylesford Vic. tells me this has proved to limit the Torque to a relatively small Rev range. Current method is that distance from head to first bend is critical to back pressure and should be a minimum 75 mm after the bend all outlets on a 4 cyl eng into one collector & all 4 pipes of different lengths, the pipes from head to collector having the same internal dimentions as the head exhaust ports.After the collector outlet size is governed by suitable mufflers to conform to noise limits, but should be at least one size bigger than the others.
    This type of extractor construction provides useful torque over the entire rev range.
    Albert's regular clients include:- Racing trucks, Formula Vee's, Top fuel Dragsters,Drag boats,Speedway cars and a myriad of Central Victorian Street Rods. With his help i'm pulling serious Hp out of my R10.
    Which when i think on it is why when i approached Performance Exhausts in Ringwood Vic, about extractors he said i couldn't do much better than the original Renault Headers on the R16TS motor the 4 ports are the same length to the bend albeit less than 50 mm & all different lengths
    whip gohorsies go

    <small>[ 03 November 2002, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Damien Gardner ]</small>
    Health and good fortune always,
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    550 bucks fvck! You coud get turbo for 200 bucks and bolt that to your welded up existing manifold. Any room in the engine bay for such projects???

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    I was quoted $650 for custom made extractors for my supercharged 16TS powered R10 that did include muffler but not fitting, in the process of doing it myself.
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  9. #9
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    Al, I'd like to see you get custom extractors made for significantly less than $550 (at arm's length, not mate's rates). Then, if you did, I'd have a laugh at how crappy they'd be...

    One problem I came across in a BMW 4 cylinder I had was excessive heat in the engine bay from the extractors. So much so that the windscreen washer bottle and plug leads were melting.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Magnex make a 4-1 extractor system for 205's but at aroun 300GBP its not cheap and reportedly not much benifit and very noisy on the FWY. The fact that very few companies make aftermarket units does suggest the stock one is very good.

    Mine cracked recently (a 2mm gap the whole way round - the result of a worn upper eng. mount) and I replaced it with a 306 8V unit, which is exactly the same in flow paths. However the new units have been reinforced with additional ribs, making it a stronger unit. I picked this one up for A$165 at Reno Wreck. Its also a good idea to check the state of the engine mounts if you want to avoid repeat performances.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    Al, I'd like to see you get custom extractors made for significantly less than $550

    didnt say I could??!!

    (at arm's length, not mate's rates). Then, if you did, I'd have a laugh at how crappy they'd be...

    not nessary in the instants I suggest!

    Obviously your knocking extractors out by the dozen stuey!! I see your positive suggestion are comming thick and fast!! Mainly thick. Since you seem unable to read comments in my prior post!

    Clearly takes talent to go by em?? and pay dearly for something that results in less grunt than the turbo suggestion! mallet

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    AlsPug504:
    550 bucks fvck! You coud get turbo for 200 bucks and bolt that to your welded up existing manifold. Any room in the engine bay for such projects???
    $200 surely you are kidding
    a turbo set up would hava to cost more to set up right
    either that or murat spent money in the wrong areas
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  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    306 manifolds have the same flow paths?

    Do all 306 8v models have the same flow paths? If not, do you know which models do? If they do that would be great because there are a lot more 306s around than 205 or 309 (or 405??) GTIs to source a new manifold off.

    I was quoted $400 for a new one from peugeot!

  14. #14
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    AlsPug504:
    Al, I'd like to see you get custom extractors made for significantly less than $550

    didnt say I could??!!

    (at arm's length, not mate's rates). Then, if you did, I'd have a laugh at how crappy they'd be...

    not nessary in the instants I suggest!

    Obviously your knocking extractors out by the dozen stuey!! I see your positive suggestion are comming thick and fast!! Mainly thick. Since you seem unable to read comments in my prior post!

    Clearly takes talent to go by em?? and pay dearly for something that results in less grunt than the turbo suggestion! mallet
    I was referring to your apparent surprise at the price, you skilled linguist. Oh yeah, the $200 bolt on turbo system. Forgot about that

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    The post says turbo! not turbo kit.

    However you can buy the hitachi turbo from the rx 7s 12at engine probably even with oil lines & fittings for 200bucks. Most of which are fittings which are availiable at Pirtec.

    All that is then needed is the bov which can be bought from bosch or bursons for $45 and the nessary pipe lengths and elbows, for the turbo to induction hook up. Which you can quickly work out which way to connect them and get them welded including the bov fitting for less than 100 bucks! On some cars it is possible to invert the exhaust manifold and bolt the turbo to that!

    Adapter plates can be made by someone you know and for the most part exhaust joints will have somthing that will fit on the existing pipes
    this is the cheapest conversion and no it does not have to be dodgy!!!

    There are plently of shops that knock stuff up for very cheap! In most cases the cheapest is in liquid currency (ie beers) even with all this said if you are crafty you could do it for 600 bucks.

    according to juilian edgar most efi systems dont need any mods up to a 20% power increase. you may not be fvcked doing all this! However it leaves scope for further mods like boost increases intercoolers ect!!! and with out forking over sh1t loads of cash for a lower potential increases in power!!

  16. #16
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    Al,

    As I've alluded to above, you can't give advice suggesting to someone to pay someone in beers, or to get someone you know to do things, because that's not what normally happens. Most people pay the going rate. Ask member Murat about the engineering cost of a real turbo setup for a 205GTi. And for god's sake give it a rest with the exclaiming will you!

    Again, that's the last I'm gonna say for the sake of the others... (sigh)

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    As I've alluded to above, you can't give advice suggesting to someone to pay someone in beers, or to get someone you know to do things, because

    What do you mean? That is exactly what I did in the forum and do in life. Seems to work alright?
    a lot of tradies appreciate beer more than the money and get stuff done! correctly to.

    that's not what normally happens.
    what does? and does nothing normally result from
    it?

    Stuey I am sure many people have had bad experiences
    ie got stung getting stuff done for there cars that includes me among probably many thousand.

    So I only maintain the possiblity that there are shops around that do stuff dirt cheap. I know because I had to sort through the ratbags myself.

    Just cos you got a set back does not mean you should give up on the possiblity that someone will make, weld, turn, machine, the items you want for a price your prepared to pay and so long as you have the ablity to trust them.

    I have one guy who does all the bits for my car related experiments, and he does an execellent job. Does not charge a heap in fact there are times were he says. "arrr dont worry about it." when I go to pay him. So long as you know what your doing thier little chance error! if you dont (know what your doing) start to read about those areas your concerned about and take action in opposition to your concern

    <small>[ 16 November 2002, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: AlsPug504 ]</small>

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    All the manifolds crack, unless its rooted totally leave it there. Or if you have to, get it welded. Forget the extractors. Aussie 205's had a crap narrow exhaust from the cat back, if you have this too spend your money there instead.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    I'll re-open this string,
    I just purchased enough mandrell bends 4:1 adaptor & tube to manufacture a set of extractors for my 16TS powered R10 the cost $140 the only other expense will be mig welding wire wouldn't expect more than $10 i have a head with stripped manifold studs so can manufacture on the bench. A far cry from the quoted $650 from performance exhaust. dance
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    Excellent Damien!! There is a good book that can help with getting the lengths and tune right it is called the scientific design of exhaust and intake systems by phillip smith and jc morrison it is well worth a read if you diy exhausts. best to go though amazon for cheap and new .

  21. #21
    Member fat bastard's Avatar
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    hi fellas, same thing happened to my 205 last year when i was getting a 2 1/4 stainless job. After alot of searching i a found second hand one for $220. Came to the conclusion that it will happen again. No need for mandrel as the system can be installed pretty well dead straight. Extractors ($550),then stainless with everthing right at the back - cat,hot dog and muffler for a grand. I specifically asked to keep tne torque (its not 16v). Still have the mid range but has more urge, response and revs faster.
    Present: 406 petrol 2.0 turbo 97(GB Import), 205 gti 1.9 89, Yamaha TZR250 3xv 93 (Jap Import)

    Past: 205 gti 1.6 1988 (Singpr Import), Citroen 1.9 BX16valve, 405 1.9 mi16, 405 2.0 mi16,
    205 si 93, Mini GT, Datsun SSS x3, Dodge Ram, kingswood, Yamaha TZR250 2ma x2


    Hey mate...You've left your Barina's lights on

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