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Thread: turbo 504Ti

  1. #1
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    turbo 504Ti

    i'm about to turbo charge my 504 Ti, i've look at all the plumbing needed and it looks like it can be done if i can get two one-way valves.
    has any one actually attempted this as i'm not sure if, at full rich, i'm goin to get enough fuel. well i'll find out in about a week! also anyone know of any good and cheap air/fuel ratio kits.

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    has been done to a carbie 504
    dave has a 504 engine that used to be turboed
    shouldn't be too hard to do but getting enough fuel may need a little playing with the pump
    maybe a second pump might be the go as this has been done before as well as twin throttle bodies
    let us know how you get on
    what size hair dryer are you using ??
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  3. #3
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    Nice! How much did all the gear cost? Can you detail it (particularly what turbo)? If it's not rediculous and you can get it working I'd definitely be interested in blowing my Ti :p Good luck

  4. #4
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    i got my hands on a garrett m10 airesearch turbo for $50, its just smaller then a t03, i think it came of a front wheel drive nissan (because of a inprint on the exhaust housing, bearing material gettin of a mate in bolk and machining them up. all the exhaust pipe and mainfolds i priced today, should b able to get away with all exhaust including resi's and custom extractors for about 200 - 250. i live on a budget!!
    inlet plumbing will be prob just mild steel also (exhaust is), and intercooler i got of a mate as part of a 504 ti motor coupled to a 5 speed i did for him in his 505.
    i'll keep people informed on how i go. should be doing it all within the next 2 weeks, got study priorities.

  5. #5
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    i got my hands on a garrett m10 airesearch turbo for $50, its just smaller then a t03, i think it came of a front wheel drive nissan (because of a inprint on the exhaust housing, bearing material gettin of a mate in bolk and machining them up. all the exhaust pipe and mainfolds i priced today, should b able to get away with all exhaust including resi's and custom extractors for about 200 - 250. i live on a budget!!
    inlet plumbing will be prob just mild steel also (exhaust is), and intercooler i got of a mate as part of a 504 ti motor coupled to a 5 speed i did for him in his 505.
    i'll keep people informed on how i go. should be doing it all within the next 2 weeks, got study priorities.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    dam straight you'll keep us posted lol

    [quotebot]
    should be doing it all within the next 2 weeks, got study priorities.
    [/quotebot]

    sounds like you need to get your priorities worked out mate.. wink lol

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  7. #7
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    Since the injection pump works on changes in manifold VACUMN, I don't see how this would work.
    Graham Wallis

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    oh... naturally big problem...

    carbi is the answer !!!

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Since the injection pump works on changes in manifold VACUMN, I don't see how this would work.
    Graham Wallis
    Wouldn't you just put your vacuum sensor on the upstream side of your blower fan? I can't recall how the Kugelfischer set-up senses vacuum, but this is what you would do with any other forced induction system. It's just a matter of plumbing. Or am I on happy gas here?

    Fuel quantity would surely be sufficient as long as you had big enough injectors. Apparently Southcott Engineering in SA no longer recondition Kugelfischer units. If they did I'd be running it past them. Anybody know of another Kugelfischer expert?

    Regards,
    John Lane.
    Current: 406 Coupe, 504 Sedan

    Previous: 306XSi, 205GTi, 206Gti, 505 V6, 505 Wagon, 504 Sedan, 504 Wagon, 306Gti6, 306XT, 205Si, Citroen XM, Citroen Xantia

  10. #10
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    i had a chat to one of the main peugeot dealers here in sa and they did send a unit to southcotts for recon. .... about 5 years ago!! so i dare say ur right john.
    dave mcbean also told me that changing internals of the pumps is quite expensive so i will c how i go for now. i will also run an air/fuel ratio sensor and gauge inside the car so under laod i can see what is doing. if it doesn't work out atleast i will have good manifolds and exhaust for a carbi version.
    i will insect the throttle assembly more but i did initially believe the throttle sensor was after the throttle, hence maximum vacuum occurs while the throttle is fully shut. as it opens pessures even out and its mearly at atmos. pressure.
    if this is the case, bolcking it off (one-way valve) at wide open throttle should not make a difference and it can still be possitioned after the turbo.
    thanks all for the info also.

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Might be possible to do it if you work it on the old Mercedes-Benz system...

    They pumped the air through the carbie, rather than sucked through it.

    So the equivalent would be to seal the air cleaner and pump into it, also pressurise the altitude compensator. Fuel pressure should be right...

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Since the injection pump works on changes in manifold VACUMN, I don't see how this would work.
    Graham Wallis
    Place a non return valve in the vacuum line. Change the full throttle fuel deivery quantities.
    If the vacuum line is in front of the turbo it will recieve a vacuum consistantly and never reach ambient pressures were it will deliver its peak fuel.

    By the way you might want to add a vacuum advance and pressure retard type cylinder for the dizzy.

    does any one know how to up the pressure of the injector pump?

    <small>[ 04 June 2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: AlsPug504 ]</small>

  13. #13
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Running a higher pressure lift pump will do that, I'm sure.

    But you wouldn't need to, as the fuel delivery pressure is higher than typical turbo manifold pressure.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    You may need to up the pressure so as to get more fuel for the greater quantity of air.

    Al

  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Not the way to do it, surely?

    The best way would be to work it the way it's supposed to be worked. Determine if the stroke has to be changed.

  16. #16
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    AlsPug504:
    You may need to up the pressure so as to get more fuel for the greater quantity of air.

    Al
    with hopefully a little assistance from raymondo bell i may be able to answer a few of these questions
    i have an idea or two that i have been kicking around for a little while involving the inj pumps so bear with me a little and soon i'll be able to give a reasonable run down
    3 x '78 604 SL

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  17. #17
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    thats a good idea ray, it man be a tight fit around all the the pump and hoses, but i'll have a look anyway.
    Al what did u mean by "pressure retard type cylinder for the dizzy", i heard under boost tyou dont want the dizzy advancing to stop pinging.
    i'm running a modified dizzy already set up with electronic ignition, crane XR700, with a vacuum advance working.
    i recommend this unit to anyone. i do drive my cars hard and after i put this on 6000 rpm gear changes are no problem. the whole engine feels crisper and rev more freely. no surging or anything. still using the standard coil also.

  18. #18
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    asa504:

    Al what did u mean by "pressure retard type cylinder for the dizzy", .
    That's a dissy with a vacuum advance mechanism designed to push the other way (retard) when the manifold pressure goes above vacuum and into the boost zone. It basically entails a vacuum cylinder with a whole in the back, and an internal advance mechanism which can turn the opposite way (retard) as well as advance.

    You may be able to modify your dissy to work like this, but you may have to sacrifice some of your advance (i.e. a dissy designed to give 40 degrees advance may give 30 after modification, with 10 degrees of retard). You can probably buy a vacuum cylinder with the hole in the back from Repco or somewhere (2 litre TE Cortinas used them, as well as the Sigma Turbo I think).

    Dave

    <small>[ 04 June 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    RX 7s have pressure boost retard and vac advance stock.

    It might actually be better if the lift pump runs a constant high pressure, to a boost variable fuel pressure regulator. That way there is not the issue of having to adjust lift pump speeds. You could place a bleed in the boost line to the regulator and that would give you a manual control.

    In the vacuum control line it may be an idea to have it bleed to atomospheric pressure so it does not remain exposed to vacuum constantly.

    Is there anyway that unit that controls the injected quantity of fuel be adjusted so that greater fuel can be delivered at greater than ambient pressure? Is the injector pump a multi cylinder with a variable cam plate? If so what ray said would work very well!

    <small>[ 05 June 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: AlsPug504 ]</small>

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