Turbocharging a GTi6????
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Turbocharging a GTi6????

    Hey Guys

    As sum of you may know im putting a GTi6 Motor, G-Box, suspension, brakes, interior ect into my N3 306 XR. Now ive always wanted to turbo the pug but always thought it would be too expensive.

    Recently a nice Turbo kit for a SOHC 1.8 Lancer has come up for $1800....with a new manifold ect i could adapt it to the GTi6 motor but ive got a few questions.

    Is the GTi6 motor internally strong and does it take kindly to Forced Induction? I know for fact that the Type R motor can take 7-9psi safely and i would run only low pressure like 5-7psi on the Gti6.

    Also how strong is the 6-Speed Transmission?

    Anyways any info or sources regarding the engine would be greaty appreciated cause im really thinking about doing this hopefully by the end of this year

    Thanks

    Alex

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    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    By all means go for it but personally I think it is the stupidest idea ever.

    Save your money. Buy a 200sx. Go nuts.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Save your money. Buy a 200sx. Go nuts.
    Pfft why would i want one of those when ive got a Mitsubishi 3000GT just begging to be modded? lol

    Look sure im a bit younger than most members on these boards and u oldschool pug lovers will be going "damn youngens with their FWD Pugs ect" but stuff it. Im sick of being resonable and not wasting money on cars...its a hobby and i wanna do sumthing that hasn't been done here a modded pug is rareenough to see let alone a Turbo one.

    I spend alot of time(too much) in Jap car clubs and alot of my friends have turbo converted their NA FWD cars and so the knowledge is there

    I just want to run a low pressure setup on stock internals a new ECU and possibly bigger injectors/Fuel Pump.

    I dunno anyone had any experience with this kind of thing...anywhere in england(websites) i can go to find out?
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    The drive shafts are notorious for snapping at anything over 200Bhp, also fueling and injectors are not up to the job.
    You will need an aftermarket ECU, fuel upgrade, relocation of battery to back, etc. The static ratio of the gti6 engine is a little higher, but the jackets are not up to the job.
    Turbo and git6, its been done. Eccosee did it in the UK, but required whole bottom end rebuild and lots of custom work. ie $$$$.
    Like maq said not worth while in a FWD for witch it has trouble putting power down as is, let alone with more grunt. Id spend the money on a god exhaust 2.25" and a KN insert for thefilter and a serious strip out of your XR, an major brake upgrade. also beef up the suspention too.
    cheers Xq
    ... ptui!

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    The drive shafts are notorious for snapping at anything over 200Bhp, also fueling and injectors are not up to the job.
    You will need an aftermarket ECU, fuel upgrade, relocation of battery to back, etc. The static ratio of the gti6 engine is a little higher, but the jackets are not up to the job.
    Turbo and git6, its been done. Eccosee did it in the UK, but required whole bottom end rebuild and lots of custom work. ie $$$$.
    Like maq said not worth while in a FWD for witch it has trouble putting power down as is, let alone with more grunt. Id spend the money on a god exhaust 2.25" and a KN insert for thefilter and a serious strip out of your XR, an major brake upgrade. also beef up the suspention too.
    cheers Xq
    ... ptui!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    OK - for one it's nigh on impossible to do. There is just SFA room back there for a turbo. Heat would be an issue too. There is a big reason that you don't see this done often.

    Honda's have the engines around the other way, so it is a lot easier.

    Secondly, it's a sure fire way to turn an awesomly balanced, enjoyable beast into a torque steering pile of poo.

    Spend the money on something that will give appreciable gains.....like your 3000GT or a 200sx (40rwkw gain just with an exhaust etc etc).

    If you bought the Peugeot for the power, you've made a bit of a mistake.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    as nike would say...just do it head_ban

    Alex, fit the GTi6 first, see how it is.....then start off with 5psi wink

    we'll work something out...even if it means letting me trial the engine in the 205. roll_lau

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Andreas:


    we'll work something out...even if it means letting me trial the engine in the 205. roll_lau
    i like that idea!!!
    cheers Xq

    ps how you doing andreas
    ... ptui!

  9. #9
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    macquered:
    pile of poo.
    This is becoming quite your saying isn't it macquered :p

    Also WRCPUG, all those who've posted in this thread so far as probably just as young as yourself Most of the 306, 206 and 205 and 405 drivers are on Aussiefrogs..
    Derek.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys ok hers sum things

    The kit i wanted to buy made 140fwkw (front Wheel Kilowatt) on a SOHC 1.8 Lancer motor with stock internals. That motor makes like 90kw or so from factory. This lancer recently ran a 11.9 1/4 Mile and holds Vic fastest FWD Turbo record. He ran that pass on slicks and the Stock Lancer Gearbox.

    Now im well aware powerful FWD cars are a handful and dont get the power down as well as RWD. But ive got tricks up my sleeve ill fit Azenis or sum Semi comps and stiffen the rear suspension so as to minimise Weight transfer.

    My friend has a 1.5 DOHC Turbo converted Mirage and i have never seen a FWD car launch this good. He almost keeps up on launch with me when i raced him in the GTO (4WD Twin Turbo Car). I was once skeptical on FWD Turbo car launches but after seeing it personally and having many friends that have done it im very interterested in doing it myself.

    As for room...a T25-28 sized turbo are fairly small and should be able to fit...its just a matter of making a good manifold.

    Torque steer is fun i miss it after Andreas stole the 205GTi from my family. lol

    Im just thinkin if a sh11ty 1.8 Mitsubishi motor can oush 120-140fwkw why couldn't a 124kw GTi6 motor do it? Are you saying that the Mitsu Motor is better than the GTi6 motor?

    Anyways keep the comments comming guys negative or positive its all good to see what you guys think and how i should do it

    BTW does anyone know what the fastest Pug in australia is ATM?

    Oh and Andreas..we will work sumthing out but first u gotta buy that XSi and wack the Supercharger on it
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    well..i m in the process of supercharging my 205...and we all know what a pile of junk those motors r....i would have thought the gti6 motor should be able to deal with 5-7 pounds without a problem....the japs ceartinly built strong engines but lancia delta motors held drag records down under for years..i really can not see the pug motor being that bad....their bottom ends are quite tough...i d go for it...

    cheers
    dino

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ps....although like macquered said u ll probably destroy the cars original characteristics (ie turn it into a pile of poo)which were its greatest qualities...free reving and cart like...but no matter what...the great chassis will still be ther to back u up...

    cheers
    dino

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    So you are S/Charging the 205 motor? Good stuff how much pressure do u plan on running?

    Yeah the Lancia Delta Evo is my dream car ive been in one and they handle like a 205GTi but with power and grip I love em

    Yes it may change the chracteristics but it will still be a greathandling car....i want to have 2 boost settings. Like 6-7psi for when i want to boot it and just low boost 3psi for normal everyday driving. I want to put the least amount of stress on the motor as possible.

    thanks for your input hope to see that 205 soon
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    illl see...will probably be running around 5 pounds (toyota mr2 supercharger)....u r right about variable boost control....a rex under 10ponds is quite docile but at 16 turns into a monster...if you can achieve that in a pug it would be great...this is what i like about a supercharger....power is always on tap and its linear and aussie s[pec motors ran lower compression so i should be safe up to 5 pound (for at least a couple of weeks )...whats the compression like in your car???will u need to lower it much???whatever the case...good luck with it...as for my pug..well i ve been waiting to move into my new place (with a garage finnally) and then i ll start reassembly...still need some piping made but i d rather plan it out properly and take my time with it than rush it and #@@#%it up...with the supercharger sitting where the old aircon was it should end up being a pretty clean install....just can not wait to hear that sound only a BELT DRIVEN engine can make...and NO there will not be any blowoff valves on this one....

    cheers
    dino
    ps...the worst that will happen...i ll blow the motor and will finnaly not have an excuse for not fitting the mi16 in the first place...

  15. #15
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Doesn’t the GTI6 have an alloy block? AFAIK, it does, like the S1 Mi16, but unlike the Iron block of the 205, S16 and S2 Mi16. The alloys would be more prone to failure compared to the Iron.

    I would think supercharging would be your best bet. Stick it where the A/C compressor is, squeeze a intercooler in the front, few other mods and she’s good to go.
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  16. #16
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    GTi-6 has an iron block
    they also run 10.65:1 CR
    let us know what you come up with
    be very interesting if it all works out and what solutions you come up with
    AFAIK the 6spd in the GTi-6 is the same box they ran in the maxi rally cars as well so they should be able to handle a little more oomphf
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    The Toy. Soarer blower i'm using on the R10 is the same size as the MR2 with slightly larger ports, on standard toyota pulleys & no blow off, it gives 10lb boost at 5k rpm, & i'm to busy to look when it gets to 7k lol. It'a all a learning curve fellas.
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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Having previously turboed a NA car I can tell you that its not going to be a cheap exercise. You will need:

    - bigger injectors
    - bigger fuel pump
    - aftermarket computer
    - custom exhaust manifold
    - piping
    - rising rate fuel pressure regulator
    - turbo
    - new exhaust system
    - B I G intercooler

    Right there you are looking at $3000+ before anyone lays a finger on the car.

    And with a 10+ CR you would only be able to run very low boost unless you decompress the engine by fitting a thick copper headgasket or using different pistons or taking some material out of the head to raise the compression.

    The reason I say this is because just driving a GTi6 as they come factory they are known to ping on substandard fuel quite badly. By adding forced induction you will just be making this situation a whole lot worse.

    As for your mates Lancer running an 11.9, thats crap. There is no way a FWD car with that amount of power would run an 11.9. As a matter of fact I just checked on fullboost the FWD Top 10 and there is no Lancer in it, and 10th spot is a 12.2. Someone is telling fibs. mallet To run that time you would have to be up to near 200fwkw+ in a Lancer unless it was totally stripped out.

    As for the quickest Pug in Oz, I'll tell you the time once I get my car back and run it with the nitrous. roll_lau

    Darren

    <small>[ 28 May 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: YEL020 ]</small>

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger!
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    What're the differences between an S16 and an mi16 engine? Apart from the alloy/iron blocks? Are they the same size, etc?

    thanks,

    Bagel

  20. #20
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    The S1 Mi16 used the XU9J4, 1.9l 16 valve. I am quite sure this (perhaps not the GTI6) was alloy.

    The S2 Mi16 and the S16 use the XU10J4 2.0l 16 valve iron block.

    They both have similar power in Australian fit-out, however the XU9J4 is rather more peaky.
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Having previously turboed a NA car I can tell you that its not going to be a cheap exercise. You will need:

    - bigger injectors
    - bigger fuel pump
    - aftermarket computer
    - custom exhaust manifold
    - piping
    - rising rate fuel pressure regulator
    - turbo
    - new exhaust system
    - B I G intercooler

    Right there you are looking at $3000+ before anyone lays a finger on the car.
    Thanks for your input but im aware i need these items.
    Big Interccoler is poitnless, I will get a Mitsu Evo Cooler these are one of the best flowing Stock intercoolers and for a low boost setup will serve my purpose fine they can be had for $300-400.
    Injectors and fuel pump i can get quite easily my friend works at Bosch= cost price.

    Turbo im thinking T25-T28 or a IHI TD04 its not gonna be big i dont want a laggy setup. These Turbos can be had for $500 the T28 a little more im gonna get 2nd hand BTW. They are not good for big HP setups but thats not what im after.

    Im not touching internals or comp ratio. Like ive said alot of my friends have turboed their VTEC motors which run 11.1 Comp ratio and they last. Its all in the tuning and fuel support systems plus im running low boost.

    Im not going for an animal of a car the GTi6 is quick enough i just want to make it that little bit quicker and UNIQUE. Im sick of Jap cars running round with turbos its time for Peugeots turn

    Oh and

    As for your mates Lancer running an 11.9, thats crap. There is no way a FWD car with that amount of power would run an 11.9. As a matter of fact I just checked on fullboost the FWD Top 10 and there is no Lancer in it, and 10th spot is a 12.2. Someone is telling fibs. To run that time you would have to be up to near 200fwkw+ in a Lancer unless it was totally stripped out.
    Why dont u check Fullboost now...check Friday nights results. Brankos Lancer ran a 11.9.
    Ive seen this car on the street and it beat WRX's ect with the old setup(the one i wanted to buy)
    He now has a new setup running Streghthened internals, Big turbo but it looks stock. Its got over 250fwkw.

    Its still only a SOHC 1.8 6G93 but it pulled a 11.9. Go check it out.

    <a href="http://www.fullboost.com.au/racing/dragmeets/2003/calder_03_052/calder_03_052.html" target="_blank">http://www.fullboost.com.au/racing/dragmeets/2003/calder_03_052/calder_03_052.html</a>

    See that Silver Stock Lancer...thats it
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Ok. Now the "correct" story is told I understand. The way you wrote it before it sounded like he ran the 11.9 with the setup you want to buy. It helps when you know the full story.

    I would seriously recommend you do something about the compression ratio. Leaving it standard is just asking for trouble. Or, you'd want to be having the very best Motec management and a very good tune.

    But, I hope you do it. It certainly is different.

    Darren

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Yeah sorry...in the first post it sounded like the setup i wanted was the 11.9 one. I only realised after and couldn't find the button to edit my post.

    This is his OLD setup runing TD04...it made 140fwkw on STOCK INTERNALS and Comp Ratio.

    As for comp....i really dont want to have to open the motor up thats when stuff becomes expensive.(although if i blow the motor itll be expensive too )

    But yeah im prob gonna get a autronic SMC ECU or if Andreas wants to sell me his Motec i might use that. As for tuning yeah ive got that covered.

    My friend (hes a stupid Honda nut and doesn't shut up bout them) he built a Turbo setup for his Prelude H22A VTEC motor. On 9psi of boost running stock intenals and comp he made 200fwkw(front wheel kw) with upgraded fuel system and Microtech. The tuning was going great until he blew the gearbox Ill be getting him to screw my turbo setup together though

    Thats my main concern with this excericse is the GTi6 gearbox frown
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Heres the details of the old kit off the Lancer.
    $1800 sounds like a bargain to me

    TDO4L turbo
    exhaust manifold
    dump pipe (turbo to cat)
    intercooler
    intercooler piping
    hose and clamps etc
    water lines etc

    440CC injectors
    2.5" exhaust
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Just do it WRC, i mean by the sounds of things you are prepared to spend big and aware of the possible consequences. Success or failure you have nothing to lose, i mean the way you got the gti6 engine in the first place is rare to say the least, It was probably a sign for you to do something with it...
    Just think how good it would be to kick some rice ass down the 1/4 in your snail... Victory couldnt be sweeter

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