306 rear suspension problem?
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  1. #1
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    306 rear suspension problem?

    I drove up to Toowoomba from Brisbane on the weekend and notice a strange trait in the handling of my S16 when doing over 100km/h. When I gave the wheel a quick flick like swerving around a pot-hole, it felt like the rear was trailing the front a lot more than what I have experienced before, kinda like there was a trailer on the back preventing the rear from moving with the front, but then trying to overtake it when it comes across. I checked tyre pressures and all were fine. I am thinking it may be worn rear shocks allowing the rear to ‘tip’ with the sideways momentum, then coming back up, causing the sensation of the rear trying to overtake the front. Does this sound like a likely scenario?

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    I am getting some quotes on Boge and Koni replacements, but I would like to know whether this is a job I could do myself with my mate who is an experienced Diesel mechanic, without any special tooling.

    Should I replace any of the bushes while I am at it, if so which ones?

    If anyone has a workshop manual with details on the job I would be grateful for a photocopy of that section, or alternatively, a manual covering the S16 I could buy.

    Cheers

    Brad
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! PULS8R's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure what you felt would be the "passive rear steering" of the 306. The suspension is designed in such a way that at speeds over 80km/h or so, the wheels slightly turn in. I'm sure there was an article somewhere on this.
    1995 306 XR

  3. #3
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Got a quote from Peugeotech

    $145/ea for OEM's + $30 to install both of them!!!, cheap as chips.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  4. #4
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    Check the trailing arm bearings on the rear suspension for play.
    I believe that if left in worn condition for too long
    expensive repairs will be required.
    Can somebody elaborate on this? I'm not an expert in this area and would like to know more.

    Graham Wallis
    Graham Wallis

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Phasis, what you describe above, i can't really notice on my S16, but when the esscargo lads lowered it it did feel more responsive in the rear and was more neutral, and now dosn't want to lift-off oversteer as when it was stock.
    take the rear wheels of and compare to either side, if not seek advise from a pro.
    As for the bush-worn theory this is very true on cars that were/are lowered incorrectly, by non-froggers ussualy.
    But its rare in the S16 as things are a little more uprated. Ie in 4 years the rear not 1 single fault or repair made/needed. BUT, up front, oh dear, x2 engine mounts, x1 timming belt( as per service sched), x1 harmonic balancer, x2 drive belts, both LH and RH A-arms!!, x1 clutch!, x3 coils, x2 sets of plugs (mainly coz a certain owner thought he knew better) and x1 battery plus all the scheduled servicing the little wee s16 deserves.
    Next, LSD and remote oil filter.
    Xq
    ... ptui!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    205's and 405's are at the age where they need the bearings and bushes in the rear serviced. Failure to do so results in big dollars. I guess early 306's will naturally follow suit.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span><span class=ResizableText0>
    Originally</span> posted by PeterT: <strong>205's and 405's are at the age where they need the bearings and
    bushes in the rear serviced. Failure to do so results in big dollars. I guess early 306's will naturally follow <span class=ResizableText0>suit.
    </span> </span>

    Hey peter, you know what is involved in this service? is it any better if i do it now out of precaution?
    cheers
    Xq

    ps, sorry your not coming to the track day, im sure it wont be the only one.
    ... ptui!

  8. #8
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    I am now thinking of lashing out and getting the new shocks for the rear and new bushes for the front. Couple of questions though...

    What's the deal with replacing the lower A arm bushes? Can these be pressed out or is the only way to replace the WHOLE arm. Cost?

    Xqisid...
    Have you had any other bushes replaced? Because I have quite a few rattles up front. I know one is being caused by the spring twisting and 'apparently' nothing can be done.

    What is the model number for the plugs you have? Cost? Did these alone change anything or did you have to tune the engine for them?

    Are you Eibach springs progressive? The ones I have are not. I was speaking with a guy from Harding Euro and he said Eibachs are progressive.

    Does anyone know if those springs for sale for $80 in the Lowering XR thread are progresive or any good?
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  9. #9
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    the current Eibachs on the market for the GTi6, at least, are progressive.
    - Lincoln

    Contribute to the World Community Grid.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Phasis, from memory the control arms are $190 each. I think you can press in bushes from an XM Citreon from memory, but it's a bit bodgy.

    I replaced both my control arms as they looked a little worn when I was getting an alignment one time, and wanted to get the original feel.

    It's well worth it.. yours are probably getting a little tired by now.

    Re your problem, I'd look at your shocks.

  11. #11
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    For the rear yeah, I will look at the shocks first. Fronts are only a year old.

    A-arms - $190 each...owch
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  12. #12
    Cal
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    Put Koni yellows on the rear. You won't be sorry. Mine cost $150ea.

    Cal.
    1995 Mazda MX5 - 2F Race Car
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  13. #13
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Ow.... details details please.

    Who did the work?

    Does anyone know if the rear shocks off an S1 405 are interchangable with a S1 306?
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span><span class=ResizableText0>
    Originally</span> posted by Phasis: <strong> What's the deal with replacing the lower A arm bushes? Can these be pressed out or is the only way to replace the WHOLE arm. Cost? Xqisid... Have you had any other bushes replaced? Because I have quite a few rattles up front. I know one is being caused by the spring twisting and 'apparently'</span> nothing can be done. What is the model number for the plugs you have? Cost? Did these alone change anything or did you have to tune the engine for them? Are you Eibach springs progressive?</span>
    The ones I have are not. I was speaking with a guy from Harding Euro and he said Eibachs are progressive.
    </span> </span>
    Apart from both A-arms and x2 engine mounts no other bushes have been replaced, as for the A-arm, 3 different work shops (esscargo, David warner and Whiteline) all tell me that its the design of the A-arm itself that dosn't allow a new bush to be inserted.
    Of course i wanted Poly stuff, but had to settle with A-arm replacement, i took the old ones home and looked at designs in the UK sites, i reckon i can fabricate replacement arms with whiteline bushes and holders for less than $180 each, plus last heaps longer too..... ill get my ass in gear one day.
    As for my eichbachs, my are a pro-kit set which are not progressive and are not as supple as a stock or progressive set. the only way to tell is on a compretion meter and watch the figure change. hard on a car. maybe a susp. shop can tell you.
    Im not a big fan of progressive sprins as my focus with my S16 is outright handling on track work, not the road were the proggresives would be best suited. As for the twisting?? are you sure that the eichbachs are a) in right b) for your struts and captive type c) not buckled, i know you give them a hard time.
    As for shocks, any inserts that are adjustable and rebuildable are good, whilst Koni does fit this bill, don;t settle and shop around...
    Any one agree/disagree??
    I have NGK no8's, from memory?? not too sure now though, ring Esscargo and ask wat plugs they fitted to "chris's black S16 or their rally car" ask for stewart.
    I havn't gotten of my ass to get a quote and fitment for headers and new exhaust.
    Then i will get the ECU tuned to All the mods ive done and for 98ron fuel.
    At the moment it just had some timming advance put it into it really not much else, thats all i got out of halfhour on the dyno...lol.
    Xq

    ps, im thinking of going a little lower on the back to try and curb the small amount of oversteer the car is showing, mainly coz its so light in the back, so the theory is is i bring the center of garvity a little more to the back it will hopefully even the steering out..... hopefully.
    ... ptui!

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Reno's Avatar
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    Brad.... i found Fulcrum suspension <a href="http://www.fulcrumsuspensions.com.au" target="_blank">www.fulcrumsuspensions.com.au</a> to be good... they lowered the Xsara, and did my old Civic! have ha dnothing but goot things to say about them!

    they are located at Moorooka and Webster Rd Stafford!

    Julian!

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