142kw - 155kw for GTi6?
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  1. #1
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    142kw - 155kw for GTi6?

    Hello all! Recently bought myself a sigma blue GTi6. Love it, but want more grunt. Have found Northshore Rallysport can supply air filter and full exhaust system for around $1500 fitted. This produces 15% - 25% increase in power (142.5 - 155kw). Is this the best bang for my buck?, or can someone else help me spend my (approx.) $2000 better!? Also, keen on hearing about brake upgrades, assoc. costs, and effectiveness. Cheers!

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Hi, how are you.....welcome to the forum...i have a 205 gti..so i m pretty clueless about what you can do to a gti6...but hang around and you will get all the right answers from these blokes/gals...
    my only recomanadtion is to visit the PUMA RACING site.....and to research the subject (as you r doing)thorougly before you hand over the cash...$2000 bucks can get you some serious perfomance increase but remeber everything goes "hand in hand"...choosing the performance mods and combinations should ultimately be made by you and not by some company who CLAIMS to know better...this way your final decision will be much more satisfying knowing you ve achived best perfomance for money spent....

    cheers
    dino

    ps...exhaust and filters alone hardly EVER deliver anywhere near %25...if they did (especially on a gti)...you d have to assume that peugeot ENGENEERS didn t have a fainteset about engine performance...

  3. #3
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Tekkie here has the Esscargo intake and exhaust. It has a gorgeous intake note, and the exhaust sounds sensational. However, it does lack the low end umph that is so nice to use on the GTi6. I had a larger end pipe (from the cat converter back) and it assisted in revving higher, but was too droning for my liking.

    Make sure that whatever you do, you get the car dynoed before you begin work on the mods.

    As for brakes, have a browse through here as we were just talking about it. Slotted EBC discs are favoured (as opposed to slotted and cross drilled mainly because on track day the cross drilled get too hot), as well as the Green Stuff pads. I'll be switching to AP Racing pads and probably the slotted EBCs when the fronts are due.

    Welcome to the forum, great to see another GTi6 here.
    - Lincoln

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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the advice! Found also that the addition of a powerchip gold 98 can take my baby up to 142kw and 213Nm for just under a grand. Anyone had any experience with this mod or any other chip (fueltronics/unichip/chiptorque)?

    The EBC rotors and pads sound super - how much? I'll hold off until I can gather more info on the zimmer stuff though - anyone got detailed info on them?

    Does tekkie have any dyno results from his intake/exhaust conversion? (I thought a 25% increase sounded a little too good too!)

    At this stage, I reckon the project will start with intake/exhaust, then chip, then brakes.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! PULS8R's Avatar
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    To actually get that figure with the powerchip, you need to have an exhaust and air intake system already done on the car. I'm sure Northshore can provide a chip, when I requested a performance upgrade kit for my car they suggested, exhaust, air intake and chip.
    1995 306 XR

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Do what the nice man says and read the PUMA RACING site. You'll hopefully realise before you spend the money that you just can't get horsepower like that with those easy to fit and easy to charge for modifications. A Gti6 exhaust is nice standard, including the best headers you'll see on a road car. You could put a $100 air filter on and get the same result as something expensive. An air filter gives a great sound, but probably no more power. If you wanna spend the money spend it on the head and cams. Though I imagine the head is really good standard, and would therefore be not that easy to improve upon. Cams will give you more power but you will lose tractability. The chip is a waste of time I would think. Just make you use more fuel.
    Do you have a black car that I have seen in Cheltenham?
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    the only thing a chip will increase is your credit card debt!

    the exhaust/filter combo power increase (if true) would be somewhere in the mid-range and not top end.
    a friend of mine has it and after a while put the standard filter back on as he missed the low down torque.

    not doubting northshore's claims, only heard good things.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    re; filter and exhaust....like i said earlier...dont know much about the gti6 motor...but IMO its best to figure out the actual volumetric efficiency of the head ie...the way it handles intake and exhaust flow....i know that with some cars they are just starved of air and they respond nicely to a cold air intake box with good performance filter but that ususally only improves RESPONSE and there might not be any horsepower benefits....some cars however (think HQ)really love a nice set of headers which again might only deliver a light performance bonus but can ceartinly lift rew range and deliver better fuel efficiency....so unless you know where you stand (ie get it dynoed) you will not know the eventual benefits....my advice would be either further head work(which can compromise drivability) (aussies are so much better at this than the poms) or a decent set of throtle bodies (or both if you can afford it)...THE LAST thing you want to end up with is a car that makes a lot of noise (and we have all seen these)and gets you nowhere fast..ie you can actually loose horsepower....whatever you end up doing its nice to remeber that the PEUGEOT (engineers) have probably reached a nice compromise and any changes you make might end up affecting fuel efficiency, emmisions, drivability etc etc...
    to conclude: a decent brake set up is PROBABLY the best PERFORMANCE improvement you can make that ll more than balance out money spent...plus the SAFETY improvement you ll make to your everyday driving experiance...

    cheers

    dino

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    GTI666,

    As Lincoln mentioned before, my GTI seems to rev a lot more than any other GTI6 I have driven recently. The throttle response has improved where the original seem to be a lot more "mellow" (this is a relative statement compared to other standard GTI6's I have driven). I can hit the 7000rpm without any trouble at all where normal GTI's start to hesitate around the 6000rpm.
    The "sound note" is phenomenal ! I love it always had and a lot of other froggers that have heard my car seem to like it as well. And there is no droning.
    Low end... It does seems to be less responsive when taking off. 3500rpm - slipping clutch take off seems to be the favoured option amongst the 306 owners me included. The torque range is still somewhere between 3200 and 7000 rpm. evil
    140kw plus I think is a tad optimistic from the North Shore rally sport. But I still tend to think it was worth wht the previous owner spend on my behalf

    Brakes: I have EBC Greenstuff on the front and stnd brakes apart from that. Love the feel of the EBC pads over the Peugeot pads. Very nice feel from the word go. Now if I could only get rid of thet pad squeal from the read pads !

    Enjoy the Pug and the 'drives' and the surprised looks on the Rex owners when you pull away from them on the twisty stuff.
    cheers
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

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  10. #10
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    hey,
    try a unichip, it is very widely used among 306 tuners in the UK. lots of good things been said bout it, the good thing bout a unichip is that, u can dyno tune the chip to suit your new mods as u go along. and i've also got 1 for sale.

    <a href="http://www.aussiefrogs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000454" target="_blank">http://www.aussiefrogs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000454</a>

    cheerssss

  11. #11
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    GREAT! - thoroughly confused! Nah, appreciate all the sound advice. Gotta blow this money, so, exhaust, intake and unichip it is! (And if the unichip doesn't work on the pug, I'm sure it'll help make my Sube SVX see around 180kw!). However, expected comletion time has just blown out a few weeks thanks to a $1000 invoice for the aforementioned Sube and its freshly painted front-end. By the way, for anyone looking for a good paint/panel shop for pugs: Victoria Bodyworks in Nth Melb. Ask for Joe and tell him Keiran sent you!

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    GTi666, my only recommendation is get it dynoed before and after, preferably on an independent dyno that you know to be reliable.

    The GTi6 is a great motor and I'm no expert but... I'd be absolutely amazed to see a true 142kw or more from just the mods you're talking about.

    Let us know how you go..
    Cheers
    WRX2Pug
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    When Luff was running a Gti6 they made 98Kw at the wheels on the SAS dyno and ive seen the Dyno sheet to prove it, problem is lost in the lower range but mid and high was close to 18% overall, the chip tuning that SAS did, in conjunction with NorthShoreRally sport had some timing advance and with better plugs all to suit 98ron fuel, something that rarely gets mentioned in mos web sites ive read about X series engines.
    If you want to retain somelow down stuff id get a 2 1/4 inch exhaust from cat back and keep the stock headers. they flow pretty good from factory, and fit a pod filter yourself, its very easy, don't be afraid to give it a go.
    As for brakes the EBC gear bolts straight on from word go, and combining pads and discs, is awsome.
    Onmy S16, which is a similar car to yours, i have a 2.5" cat back exhaust, a K&N pod filter down low in the bay (recent mod) and fitted NGK plugs, Mobil 1 oil, and had the ecu tunned for 98ron fuel with some advance put into the timing, and im almost happy with the results, just wish i could get these cheap ass falkens to grip better.lol LSD or more dyno time coming.
    Cheers
    Xq
    ... ptui!

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Why not take your cheap ass falkens out to Milperra tyres and trade them in on something better, before they loose too much tread. I purchased 195/50/15 MXV3A Michelins with 90% tread, for $140 each last week. They have a huge range, 32000 tyres they claim. Go 10am Sunday morning to get the best service.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Tx peter, but they aren't that bad in the dry, just very bad and unpredictable in the rain/wet.
    thats only the Ziex by the way, i like the AZENIS on my 15's and soon when the ziex wear out on my 17's ill fit either 115 falkens or, Kumo Ectas. But id still like to wish to afford for an LSD, i beleive some of you were getting togther to get some UK items? thinking im going to go local-custom made, if not import time again.
    Xq
    ... ptui!

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    We just purchased 4 LSD's from Quaife. You could have joined in that order. In fact it's probably not to late, if they haven't shipped the order yet. Price works out at approx. $1700.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span><span class=ResizableText0>
    Originally</span> posted by PeterT: <strong>We just purchased 4 LSD's from Quaife. You could have joined in
    that order. In fact it's probably not to late, if they haven't shipped the order yet. Price works out at approx. <span class=ResizableText0>$1700.
    </span> </span>

    I thought you guys were getting em for B3 boxes only, will that fit my S16 box with no other alterations, if not do you know if its more/less of a cost?.........
    Xq

    i have the money but not 100% on the purchase of a quaife item, although i havn't heard a bad word yet..
    ... ptui!

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    hey GTi666,
    check yr PM. thanksssss

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Xqisid, re the Luff GTi6 you speak of, 98 kw at the wheels is about 160 bhp at the flywheel(at best, probably less). The GTi6 motor is supposed to be 167 bhp standard. So the chiptuning cost them 7 bhp or so from standard. Hmmmmm

    Kieran, one Peugeot salesman to another(if that's what you do), don't waste your money on those things. Sponsor 6 African families and I will supply you with a cd of broooom broooom noises. It will be as effective.

    You're in North Melbourne so go visit Wade cams and get some actual power for $1000 as opposed to the other kind you will get buying the stuff that is advertised in 'Max Power'.
    Today I fitted removed and fitted again an Apexi pod air filter to a 206 Gti. (10 minutes total.) A couple of drivers (me included) decided that the air filter sounded unreal (that's why I left it on) but was less powerful. Go and fit this stuff, but get the horsepower increase in writing and dyno the car before and after. I'd love to know.
    I got an extra 50 bhp out of my crap old series one 205 motor for about $2000 to $2500 with no stupid chip in sight.
    I also knew a guy whose was used by a chip company to increase the turbo boost on cars that supposedly had chips fitted to them. There was no chip at all, but the turbo boost was increased to justify the expense of the chip. This was for a major chip company. The old chip that was given back to the driver was just some crap thing they had lying around. Once my friend showed me how to do this I borrowed his vaccuum gauge and 'chipped' my old Saab turbo up in 5 minutes.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  20. #20
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    I'm about to fit Northshore Rally exhaust and intake. I'm not going to dyno my car, but I am going to do 0-100 tests before and after..... I'll keep you posted. BTW I can fit the exhaust when I sell the red rocket (205) any takers?
    Peugeot 306 GTi6
    Peugeot 205 GTiS2, you want it? call me 0414 996 499,

  21. #21
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    Thanks for the advice Warwick2. Just bought the Northshore Rallysport intake/filter kit and will be fitting it late next week once it gets down here. Like you, I'm really only expecting (and looking forward to..) a better sound. I'll dyno the car if I get the chance and post the results. I'm going to hold off on the exhaust for the time being and investigate cams. Thanks guys.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    I suggest a Wade's grind rather than an off the shelf Kent or Piper. Heaps cheaper. You can pick the grind you like. The confusing part is which one. The one I had in the 205 was a 162b. If you can get this grind over two cams on the GTi6 it would be magic, however the amount of lift may already be high, so there may be a better grind for your motor.
    With a GTi6 I would go for cams, throttle bodies, and while the cams are off I guess it would be worth a look at the head. Compression is high already, but you'd see if the valves and ports can be enlarged and improved a bit(you'd need to speak to HSD the head people in Moorabbin). If 200 bhp is easy in an old 1.9 Mi16, there has got to be more power in the GTi6 motor somewhere. Good luck
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span><span class=ResizableText0><span><span</span> <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0><span><s pan</span></span>
    <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>class=Re sizableText0></span></span> <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0></span> <span class=ResizableText0>
    Originally</span></span></span> posted by Warwick2: <span <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>class=Re sizableText0><strong>Xqisid,</span></span></span> re the Luff GTi6 you speak of, 98 kw at the wheels is about 160 bhp at the <span <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>class=Re sizableText0>flywheel(at</span></span></span>
    best, probably less). The GTi6 motor is supposed to be 167 bhp standard. So the <span <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>class=Re sizableText0>chiptuning</span></span></span> cost them 7 bhp or so from standard. <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>
    </span></span></span> <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0></span></span></span> sorry warwick i made a mistake Luff's car did make 98Kw at the wheels BUT!! it was a N5 XR 2ltr not a GTI6 as i <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>posted.. ...</span></span>
    my boo boo. All the work ive done on my car has got me <span <span class=ResizableText0>class=ResizableText0>consiste nt</span></span> low 15's (1/4 mile) with two high 14 passes on two G-tech meters.. not bad for a N/A S16. I remeber 15.8 from factory was the best i ever read for a S16. I agree on wat you said about the head work, <span class=ResizableText0>Xq</span></span></span>

    ps i too dont like these so called "chips" but do highly stress Dyno and ECU tuning not chipping, besides with our cars it would be frech frying...so sad...lol

    <small>[ 14 February 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: xqisid ]</small>
    ... ptui!

  24. #24
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    Righteo, the air filter is in and like I was told, it sounds...... UNBELIEVABLE! It took about 45 mins to self install and it certainly seems to breath a little better higher in the rev range. However, I may be imagining things, but I reckon it's lost a wee bit of torque down low. Anyway, I'm more than happy to trade that off for the flat out aggressive induction roar that snaps heads around when on full blat at 5000 rpm!!! Two thumbs up to Stewart at Northshore Rallysport.

    Onto the next mod (this may open up a can'o'worms): powerchip ($590) or dyno-tune ($?) - anyone got a story to relate?

  25. #25
    Cal
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    After much research, I picked up a Unichip for my car. Make sure you have finished the mods before you get it setup on the dyno. I will be getting mine setup after I get a different inlet cam wheel. The mods to my engine will be: Cam timing advanced by 4 degrees, Cold airbox with K&N pod filter and 2 1/2 inch exhaust with high flow cat. The Unichip will be setup to run 98 octane. I personally can't see how it won't make a difference. It will allow the dyno technician to tune the ECU to "my" engine, unlike other types of chips.

    Cal.
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