converting to electronic ignition
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  1. #1
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    converting to electronic ignition

    Hi all - can someone please explain the process involved in converting from the old points/dizzy system to electronic ignition? What does one have to do - and is it worth the hassle?

    cheers

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  2. #2
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    graham66:
    Hi all - can someone please explain the process involved in converting from the old points/dizzy system to electronic ignition? What does one have to do - and is it worth the hassle?

    cheers
    It depends on the unit you buy. Some are simply an electronic (magnetic/hall effect or optical) contact breaker that sits entirely under the distributor cap, whereas others also have a finned electronic box outside of the distributor. Generally, though, they are simple to fit and need no modifications. Look at Google for Aldon Ignitor, Pertronix, Lumenition - these will explain the different types.

    Stuey


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  3. #3
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    thanks Stuey

  4. #4
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    Graham, forgot to say - they are apparently worth the hassle, but moreso if you get a 'sports' coil and open the plug gap a few thou. All the sports coil does is increase HT voltage, so it can reliably jump a bigger plug gap. In theory, a good points setup is equally as good, but if there's any wear in the distributor spindle bushes, the spark timing scatters either side of the optimum timing point. The electronic contact breakers aren't affected by this anywhere near as much. Also, you no longer have to change points, and performance isn't affected by slowly burning away points. I think some of those with the finned box also amplify the LT current a bit to increase HT current and the strength of the spark. On the other hand, they cost about the same as twenty years worth of points.

    Cheers

    Stuey


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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Contact Thundercords in Auburn, Sydney. They sell a neat little unit that fits all inside the dizzy. Lots of Jag owners buy them in order to retain the original look of the engine bay, but without the hassle of Lucas electrics.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Graham,
    The PERTRONIX looks like a good option. This I think is the one Peter wrote of.I called an ignition specialist here in Bris a while back and he reccommended the pertronix, even thought he didn't sell it.
    Classic Bulbs in Adelaide did sell them.
    Yes Pertronix does fit the ducillier, you just give them the dist code numbers. They also have ones for Bosch dist's . I don;t know the price for a unit but believe it is around $200 .
    Other options are HEI sensors, or there is also optical sensors available. Both of these replace the points in the distributor and then you need some sort of Transistorised Ignition module, High Energy Ignition or a Capacitive Discharge system.
    You can get a kit for any of these at Altronics or Jaycar. Just go to the websites and search in the kits sections. You do need a little electronics knowledge to build the kit though.

    mallet Happy Igniting
    Cheers Chris.
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  7. #7
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    The Seimens hall effect sensors are no longer available from Jaycar. I've tried...


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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Stuey,
    Yep thats correct, the siemens HE sensor isn't available from Jaycar anymore, but it was the ignition kit I was referring to mate and not the actual sensor.

    Graham you will need some type of electronic ignition module if he wants to change the ignition. Thats where the kit would come in. There are some kits which will run successfully with the good old points in your current ignition: these modify the spark voltage and duration, to burn the fuel more thoroughly, and only use the points as a "switching" mechanism for the iginition module. Yes a Hall sensor would be a better option. All that said, i think Mallory make an optical sensor these days, but DO not quote me on this, chack first. mallet

    Cheers Chris
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    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  9. #9
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    No worries Chris. I just thought that because Graham wanted to convert from points, this is what you meant. I know about the unit they sell. By the way, I looked into this a while back and got an old Silicon Chip article sent to me, but the Siemens unit is really difficult to get now, anywhere. Bummer.

    Stuey


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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Graham,

    Sorry to hijack your topic at this late stage mate.
    Stuey, just a point on the article from Silicon Chip you mentioned. Have you ever looked at the RCS Design site??
    They have complete listing there of most if not all kits and projects covered in EA Silicon Chip and ETI from the last 20 or so years. I had a good look a few weeks back and found at least 10 iginition projects from basic CDI to high energy systems both transistor and capacitor based .
    They even list the circut board needed for each kit as well as the actual print date of the magazine.
    An interesting site if you want to dabble in "kit" ignitions. They do work, as I had an older Dick Smith Elec' TAI(transistor assisted)Ignition module fitted to my R17 for a while, which will also hopefully be fitted to the R10"s" replica when its finished one day
    The best advantage of the kit was when you first put in the boot to reach a good speed on the highway there isn't that missfire or lag till all the carbon that fvouls th plugs burns away.

    Cheers and happy reading
    Chris
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    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  11. #11
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    graham,
    i installed a crane cams electronic lgnition on my 504 Ti motor. had it in and goin in about 40 mins. no hassle and good system. cost about $150. model was XR700 and it worked with the stock coil.
    check out the web site <a href="http://www.cranecams.com/ignition/appsp.htm#Peugeot" target="_blank">http://www.cranecams.com/ignition/appsp.htm#Peugeot</a>

  12. #12
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    orange17:
    Graham,Sorry to hijack your topic at this late stage mate.Stuey, just a point on the article from Silicon Chip you mentioned. Have you ever looked at the RCS Design site??
    Cheers and happy reading
    Chris
    No, haven't seen that - thanks for the tip.


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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'm an MSD man myself. They cost a bit more but well worth the extra $. I run MSD6A's on both my vehicles.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    My 604 was converted before I got it. I think it is a Bosch system. It works great.
    Pugs Rule!

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  15. #15
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    Stuey:
    On the other hand, they cost about the same as twenty years worth of points.

    Cheers

    Stuey
    Even with a Renault? I put a new distributor on the R8 about 12 years back and haven't needed to touch the points yet. In the days when R10s were new, they used to get 50,000 miles plus from the first set of points.

    I looked seriously at electronic ignition for the R8 and decided that, for me, it wasn't worth the time to fit it, given how well the Ducellier points behave.

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  16. #16
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    JohnW is right on the money. The ducelliers have the contacts move relative to each other with the advance and therefore there is no build up of tungsten in any one point. The points will last a long time. The real advantage with electronic ignitions is their lack of maintenance as you don't have to re-time the ignition after its set (after about 500k when the "slipper" is 'bedded in') I prefer the points to remain insitu as I have had electronic ignitions fail (especially in the early days of CDI's) and it is handy to return to "Kettering" with just a swap of leads. I have never experienced any improvement in economy or performance with electronic ignitions or sports coils but it is good to sleep at night knowing you have "done your best".

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by orange17:
    <strong>Stuey,
    Yep thats correct, the siemens HE sensor isn't available from Jaycar anymore, but it was the ignition kit I was referring to mate and not the actual sensor. </strong>

    You can get the sensor from RS components also you can get the plans only for the CDI system from Jaycar.

    Al

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Stuey:
    On the other hand, they cost about the same as twenty years worth of points.

    Cheers

    Stuey
    They might cost more than that I'd say. I haven't put new points in one of my Renaults for years. Very good those old Ducellier distributors.

    Every now and again I look at electronic systems for them and it just doesn't seem worth spending the money. For me anyway.

    JohnW
    JohnW

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    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
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  19. #19
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    I agree, especially for reliability's sake. I'm just an inveterate fiddler. (Whistles and walks away with hands in pockets).

    Stuey


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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Electronic ignition can leave you stranded at short notice, but it is hassle free while it works.
    As for costing 20 years of points, the Transit eats points for breakfast. A new condenser means that point now last more than 6 weeks, but they still don't last long. The old 200 motor is geting the flick for a crossflow 250 with electronic ignition soon, so we will see if that is better. Anything is better than the bloody Transit at the moment, I am getting tired of the crappy handling (I loooove my Pugs!!!!!)
    Pugs Rule!

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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Just buy an MSD Pugnut. My 4.2L Patrol also used to eat points. I haven't changed them for 8 yrs now. The MSD takes most of the load off the points. They now switch mA rather than Amps.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Another cheaper, but still high quality alternative, is to buy a CDI unit from M&W Ignitions. <a href="http://www.mwignitions.com" target="_blank">http://www.mwignitions.com</a>
    They're made locally and used by many of the V8 Supercar teams. They cost around $120 ea and are excellent value for money. One of the founders, Mark Boxall, was the original inventer of the Haltech ECU, back in the late '80s.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Another cheaper, but still high quality alternative, is to buy a CDI unit from M&W Ignitions. <a href="http://www.mwignitions.com" target="_blank">http://www.mwignitions.com</a>
    They're made locally and used by many of the V8 Supercar teams. They cost around $120 ea and are excellent value for money. One of the founders, Mark Boxall, was the original inventer of the Haltech ECU, back in the late '80s.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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