205 GTi pwer upgrade
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    205 GTi pwer upgrade

    Hiya guys,

    Here is the deal, I have just received my work bonus of $1500 and I want to spend it on my car.

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    I want to be able to get at least 10-15kw improvement. What can I do.

    Head work?

    I just want to beat the GTI6's at wakefield.

    Any suggestions or reference to previous post would be great.

    Regards,
    Parry
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! jfn180's Avatar
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    OH NO ,hi parry,i wood put an exhurst system on you can go too hi-tech mufflers on parramatta rd lewisham,he did my exehurst and i`m very happy with it and u pick how loud you want it,or try esscargo they do a lot of stuff 2 205`s
    97`black 306 style sold JFN 306
    04 Black 206 GTI 180 JFN 180 FOR SALE
    I HATE V8 LANDCRUISERS


    WEST TIGERS= PREMIERS 05

  3. #3
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    For that sought of $$ why not try NOS!!!!
    you could use ..say a 35bhp nozzle [wont strain the donk at that level] and you could use it on your next car. PRESTO!! portable power!!

    IF you dont get a head guru then you may end up spending $$ for not much return.
    Only a suggestion...why not think of the ported head and cam deal that peter maiden in uk have as a package. approx. 550 gbp's +freight

    cheers jr
    jr20516v

    Now:
    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    I have had a look at various UK sites but Im scared of the freight costs!!!

    I will have a chat to escargo tomorrow. Let see what they have to offer.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    A while ago similar topic came up try the folowing link

    <a href="http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/mainmenu.htm" target="_blank">www.pumaracing.co.uk/mainmenu.htm</a>

    heaps of good information there...
    05' Megane 225 Cup

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Is it a 74kw or 90 kw car.
    Hopefully you can do the labour yourself.
    If it's an early car:
    headwork (porting, increase compression - 10.5 is as high as is necessary- reshape combustion chamber. May need to shave head to get enough compression-the cars not yours- need to instruct the cam people of this if it happens)Bigger inlet valves if you have money left over.

    3.0 bar fuel regulator from wrecker(dont need injectors. Ideally fit Power Boost Valve from UK set at 3.2 bar or so. Is expensive to get here. Something like $270 for little gain over almost free 3.0 bar regulator). You dont need new injectors as increasing the fuel reg. pressure does the same thing.
    Camshaft: 162b grind(speak to Wades in Melbourne)
    Platinum tip plugs. These made an enormous difference to my car.

    No offense Mr JR20516V don't waste money on an imported head(I spoke to Peter Maiden and found him to be a most unpleasant fellow so I have little faith in his products)Or speaking to Esscargo(except for air filter).
    K&N or Pipercross or Apexi or an old football sock are all the same powerwise, so dont waste money on a name brand. An old sock is ok if its an Essendon one(extra 2 bhp)
    Get someone like Headstud in Melbourne to do the work for you, for half the price of an imported head. Probably much better too. I'll tell you what to ask for if you don't know. The previous things come together WITH A DYNO TUNE.
    Throttle bodies would be a waste of money without getting the head flowed properly as it cant handle much more power without substantial work. Can't get the flow through it to make heaps more power.

    Not so necessary things follow:
    Sports air filter. Inline. Usually a waste of money, but in 205 cuts 3 feet from inlet path, so makes it more responsive.
    Exhaust. Widen entry and exit points of old narrow Cat and make up new exhaust 2 and 1/4 inches exhaust all the rest of the way through. As it's an old car the standard exhaust is probably so worn out and leaky that this is the LAST thing on the list, as constriction is not an issue. It is at the cat though. Way too narrow.
    Dont waste money on a name brand muffler. Don't do this. Lovely sound, but no more go whatsoever.
    With all this crap I got 121 bhp at the wheels of my series 1. 145-150 bhp (up from 105)at the flywheel.
    Read the Puma racing site to give some clues. It's back to basics stuff. Just terrific advice.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Its the 9okw motor, off topume I go for some reading!
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  8. #8
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    Spend the money on making the car handle and stop better and do a advanced driving course. We improved our lap times by about 10 seconds a lap by only changing the handling.

  9. #9
    Member Cosmo's Avatar
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    Hey Warwick2

    I'm sourcing a complete head from the UK (from 130bhp engine) for my 105hp 1.9gti. It's 40pounds & am finding out the shipping costs soon......I'm trying to get back the original 130hp.....am I wasting time & money?
    1993 205 GTI
    2009 MX5

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Handling opens up another whole story. Any ideas on who I can trust with suspension mods?

    Reading the Puma site scare the daylights out of me, I could be spending money for no gain as the 205 engines are well built already!
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    that's right, the 205 exhaust has always been regarded as excellent, well the manifold anyway.

    i'd put it towards handling and brakes as Adrian suggested....or buy Murat's turbo kit if he's still got it.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Depending on how many Km's car'done, I'd consider a mild head job - 3 angle seats, basic throat work etc. But only if it's due for guides/seals. I also a reground cam you might be interested in seeing the specs. for. Particularly since you've got the 90kW motor with higher CR. Adrian's right though, make it handle and stop first.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    If the motor is in good health, I'd be changing the diff. first. If it's a 90kw engine, you need a 3.93 or 4.06 centre to make it really go hard. This is probably the best investment you could make (besides the handling/brakes).

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Cosmo,
    definitely not wasting your money, though I wonder what the freight costs are and how good nick the British head is in. i.e what do you have to spend on it. Are the guides and seats ok, is the cam worn etc. Still, sounds cheap to me. I'd take the risk for sure, unless you want to modify furthur, and if so you may as well start with the 105 bhp head. I would reckon you'd still need to look at the exhaust around the cat area, cos it's truly crap there. (this will be cheap anyway)
    I agree with Adrian, the best money you can spend to lap faster on a track is on the brakes and handling(stiffer lower with some fancy geometry and front negative camber thrown in) AND fancy tyres(like Formula R's). However the 205 handling is so nice and the ride is pretty good that good track handling modifications can make a 205 truly awful to drive on the road. My old 205 was so nice to drive on the track, but ultimately not very fast because of the handling.
    Engine mods alone wont add up to the gains from handling mods on the track, but the engine mods become fun around the streets and fancy suspension will shake your fillings out on those same streets. So it depends on you priorities.
    As for what Peter said, I dunno what those diffs he talks about are, but they are presumably shorter than yours. My 150 odd bhp car (with original short diff)would accelerate well but redline in fifth at Phillip Island early; its gearing nowhere near long enough. Ran out of revs at 180 something. Very annoying. BUt at a shorter track like Winton the gearing was great. Depends where you wanna do this thing. Predominantly on the street, go for shorter gearing to increase acceleration. Fast race tracks, go long. It's all a compromise.
    p.s. Parry, dont worry about a 3.0 bar regulator as there already is one in a 90 kw car
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your valuable advise guys, well I have decided to takle my brakes first. Im getting EBC slotted rotors on the front, red stuff pad up front and green stuff at the rear. ~$600

    Its a start.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  16. #16
    Member Cosmo's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for your info too....I'll let u know about the head & when (if) it arrives...
    Cheers Cosmo
    1993 205 GTI
    2009 MX5

  17. #17
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Parry... I advise you not to go red stuff up the front. Given the lightness of the car, the red's will not get enough heat in them to get to proper opperating temperature in all but the longest and steepest braking points.

    I have greens all around on my S16 which have NEVER faded even when coming down the backside of Mt Glorious at full pelt which is notorious for killing any under-braked car. Not once was I ever given concern that there would be any fade no matter how deep into the corner I went, and this was with std. brake rotors.

    I would expect the red's would be an almighty pain, and possibly even unsafe during normal driving.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Parry, remember we was talking about making your car faster, on the cruise, i know first hand how fast it is, and you say you want to beat those gti-6's......id recomend

    *1st- strip out the car just for the track day, very cheap and instant guarranty in performance regardless of use, put the spare in the pit area oce you are at the track.
    *2nd- run 98 fuel (if you don't already)
    *3rd - get 2nd hand race tyres just for the day and kick ass, or for $1000 you can buy a set of semi-race Falken AZENIS from places like inlook etc. new. witch are just road legal.
    *4th with the $500 remaining get (as phasis said) Green Stuff pads, reds will eat your factory discs and take a wile to heat up in such a light car, and wakefield isn't too harsh o brakes anyway.
    * if there is any money left or time as Warwick said stick a loin cloth or a Filter to help you drive through the croners!! as it picks up throttle response. once you are on the line that you will take through the corner you will use the engne to drive through.
    Ready to bring it!!!
    Xq

    ps, my aim will be to beat you self and maq(as if he wont havago) and yelo20, who were the fastest onthe day on the cruise, if can get constantly quick times near these guys ill be happy.
    ... ptui!

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    I am getting the slotted disks to match the reds, but I do understand where you are coming from for normal street use of the reds. The othe concern I have is that at track day I might get rear lock up if the reds up front are not to temp.

    Greens all round are the go I think.

    Strpping the interiror for the day is already on my list of prep along with full service!

    My aim for the day is to not bend the car!
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You'll get rear lock up regardless, unless you have a bias valve. I know the Wuillemins run almost no rear bias, yet still lock up the inside rear wheel under heavy braking. My car also has a bias valve and I've set it up the same.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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