ATTN: PeterT and Others
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    May 2002
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    ATTN: PeterT and Others

    Hi guys,

    I heard PeterT was working on some head work for for the 205 gti. I am very much thinking of doing this on my future 205 gti and if the qouted performance figure gains are true I would be extremley interested in this.

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    What would you do if you had $2000 to spend on upgrades. ie best bang for buck. \

    Also is there any difference between the early model 205 gti's ie 87-91? and the 92- models? I heard the early models had less output. Is it possible to bring the early models up to the more recent model output?

    Thanks for any help guys,
    Alex V.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    New Zealand
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    173
    Best bang for bucks has gotta be an Mi16 conversion. No doubt about it.
    You could prolly pick an engine up for around $2000AUS (i think) and you've instantly got 160bhp as stock. Plus u can then work the bajeeezes out of that baby and get over 200bhp (only if your real keen eh Andreas?).
    The 8v GTi is already in a fairly high state of tune, so it's expensive to make gains, let alone big ones.
    As for the differences between engines, if anything the earlier engines are more powerful. These came out before emission laws so didnt have to suffer from a catalytic converter.
    The really early GTi's (b4 86 i think) did have less power.
    Thing is most GTi's in Aus and NZ are export spec so are only around the 100bhp instead of the UK 130bhp. This is thru lower compression ratio, milder cam (maybe) and a remapped ecu.

    Hope this helps
    Izza

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure an Mi16 upgrade is the best "bang for buck" upgrade to a 205....

    for $2000 if you were in fact able to find a second hand series 1 (the alloy one) Mi16 engine, what condition would it be in? remember they come from a car 10+ yrs old....

    What does it cost to rebuild an Mi16 engine?

    If you were to pay a mechanic to put the engine in for you, it would cost _at least_ $2000 for fitting......

    so you're already at $4000 (assuming mechanic involvement) for a 10+yr old secondhand engine to be in the car.....would you really spend that much for an old motor to be put in the car?

    How far would $4000 get you on the 1.9?........you would have at very least a full reco and some decent headwork for that.....

    The Mi16 conversion is a good option but not really "bang for buck" unless you are mechanic or looking for the "ultimate" amount of power for a 205 at any cost.

    The 1.9 would seem to be better "bang for buck" up to $4-5000

    just my 2c
    ________
    Wong Amat Tower Condo
    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 05:33 AM.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I searched the old posts re 205 stuff see the topic Wicked Head Under Construction.
    I dont know where Peter T is upto on this .......... kisses

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'd delayed this project due to work commitments and a lack of interest. If someone's keen, I'll get back onto it. Price won't be cheap though. Add this up:
    welding chambers
    new bronze guides
    new seats
    CNC machining of chambers
    port blending
    new valves if necessary
    reground cam (optional)
    gasket set
    labour

    Probably $1500-$2000

    The Aussie 205GTi lost hp due to lower CR and retarded cam. Increase the CR and put the stock cam back in the right place, together with the head mods above, and I think you'll have plenty of hp. Remember that back in 1989 there wasn't any high octane fuel, 91 octane was it. The ignition timing on early 205s can be easily modded to take advantage the improvements in CR and octane rating. You also mentioned exhausts in another post. I wouldn't add extractors. The stock manifold is very good according to other lists, and I've seen friends go through plently of pain while trying to work around them, in order to fix other things. Just get a high flow cat. and a high quality mandrel bent 2" system. It will flow plenty and be quiet. Larger systems loose too much torque and make noise. I'm into go, not show.

    Remember that the 75kW GTi does 3rd 80-120 in 6 secs. and 5th 80-120 in 10.7 sec. A full 5 seconds faster than an Mi16! How many other 75kW cars are that quick! I think it was the most under rated power figure ever.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    I am still looking around for my 205 gti. Would you guys suggest spending a bit more and going for a 91 onwards model or saving the extra dollars and getting a 87-90 model. I've seen good ones with new clutch, rebuilt engine etc. for around $6000-7000. And then spend around $1500 doing it up, performance wise.

    What would your advise be in choosing a 205 gti??

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Go for 89/90 model. They're a bit rarer but pick of the three types. They have the 75kW motor, rear drums, etc., but have the better dash. The series 3 may have 90kW and disc brakes, but they loose out on performance due to higher gearing. Buy the 15" Speedlines for $1000 in the Parts section. They're the best wheels and highly sort after. A good investment even if you don't buy a 205.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  8. #8
    Tadpole
    Join Date
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    Sydney, NSW
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    4
    PeterT:
    Go for 89/90 model. They're a bit rarer but pick of the three types. They have the 75kW motor, rear drums, etc., but have the better dash. The series 3 may have 90kW and disc brakes, but they loose out on performance due to higher gearing. Buy the 15" Speedlines for $1000 in the Parts section. They're the best wheels and highly sort after. A good investment even if you don't buy a 205.
    Thanks for that advise Peter it is more than welcome.

    You mentioned a few post above about increasing the CR(CR????) and replacing the cam with a UK spec one. What would be a rough estimate on these two mods? With these two mods would there be any other things that need to be done to make them work? Would the ecu have to be modified or changed? I take it this would give me the Uk spec of 130hp??

    Gees so so many questions, thanks for all the help guys.

    Alex V

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The head mods increase CR due to smaller chamber volume size. If you look at the Wicked 205 Head section, there is a JPEG of the finished chamber. You'll notice it looks nothing like a std. 8 valve chamber. The aim is to improve the swirl, CR and burn rates, thus giving more hp. The Aus spec. cam is identical to the UK cam. The camshaft pulley is different, retarding the cam timing by 4 degrees. This can be corrected with an offset key. If you stay with the stock cam, no ECU changes are necessary. But my partner in crime has a larger bumpstick he's eager to try.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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