Peugeot 504 GL engine swaps
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Thread: Peugeot 504 GL engine swaps

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Peugeot 504 GL engine swaps

    Hey,
    I was just wondering what engine and 5 speed gearbox conversions people have done to Peugeot 504's?

    Any ideas appreciated

    thanks

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    Floyd

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Floyd:
    Hey,
    I was just wondering what engine and 5 speed gearbox conversions people have done to Peugeot 504's?

    Any ideas appreciated

    thanks

    Floyd
    PRV V6 with BA10/5
    slightly work the PRV and a few suspension mods and you have a bit of a rocket
    there are a couple of threads on here talking about other swaps but it comes down to
    1 - keeping it peugeot
    2 - how much money and time you have
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Well I put a BA10 5 speed from a 1980 505 in my 1978 504.

    Ray Bell has put a BA7 5 speed from a 505, into his 504 wagon.

    Pugrambo has put a 604 V6 and a BA10 5 speed in a 504.

    A friend of mine has put a 604 V6 and a Celica 5 speed into his 504.

    Rally driver Andy Crane put a 505 GTI motor and Ba7 5 speedmin his 504 rally car.

    Importer Roland Pym, once put a 505 STI/GTI motor in a 504, but with twin side draught Webers on it. Apparently it went really well.

    There's a few people who have put Rover V8's and P76 V8's into 504s, and even a couple which have used Holden or Ford V8's.

    Someone even put a Mazda 13B turbo rotary in his 504 (this car was recently advertised for sale on this website).

    Personally, though, I think a warm 504 carby engine with modified square port head (or even an imported XN1A head) is the way to go, in conjunction with a Peugeot 5 speed box. I like the ratios of the early 505 BA10, but others prefer the BA7 for it's easier shifting.

    Dave

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    i wanted to keep it peugeot, how do turbo diesels go? and is it easy to convert from petrol to diesel?

    can you tell me approx cost for the different engine and gearbox

    how hard is it to swap engines?

  5. #5
    Gus
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    Importer Roland Pym, once put a 505 STI/GTI motor in a 504, but with twin side draught Webers on it. Apparently it went really well.
    Hmm...Does anyone know more about this?

    I really really wish that I'd realised about the broken fuel pre-pump in my (formerly Graham Wallis') 505 before I took the carby manifold off it. The higher-rev/WOT fuel starvation was still present with the injection, meaning that the carb (also) might have gone much better without it.

    Now I've got all the injection gear on my 505, I'll go the programmable EFI approach but I think that a 2.2l with sidedraught Webers could be a beast indeed.

    (For anyone who's keen, I have the modified R20 manifold & carby for carby-ing a Douvrin engine...)

    i wanted to keep it peugeot, how do turbo diesels go? and is it easy to convert from petrol to diesel?
    Turbo diesel is a bit of a misleading term. Although I guess you could add an intercooler and wind up the boost mallet . Diesels are slow and economical, turbo diesels are just less slow.

    And converting a diesel engine to petrol is, AFAIK, a very tall order (Diesels are low-revving, extremely high compression (20:1ish) engines and the 505TDs had mechanical diesel fuel injection. None of these 3 things are wanted in a petrol engine. Not to mention they have glow plugs instead of spark plugs.

    If you want a turbo 504, have a turbo manifold made up, plumb in some oil lines and run blow-through. No need to take your existing engine out, you can run water injection for cheap intake cooling...

    Otherwise 504TI (mechanical injection) engines go pretty well if in good tune, without needing any of the extra fuel of the V6. And there's been a lot of talk about fitting EFI to a TI manifold, if you feel like a spot of engineering (this last one is IMHO the best option if you don't want to go V6 but want to stay Pug & cheap. Cheap to insure too, as long as you can pass it off as a standard 504TI.)

    <small>[ 08 December 2002, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Gus ]</small>

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    There is heap of stuff you could potentially do. You might wanna check latest post Food for thought!! and of course 504xn1 atttn Dave Mc Bean. I talk to Dave about various mods I am certainly doing preferably as cheap as! with the possibility of results i can duplicate. Hence the reason I am make my on flow bench and the like.

    Al

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    nJm
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    I've always liked the idea of fitting a PRV V6 to my GR. If the engine dies in the next year or two I will definately look into it as I already have the BA10-5 to use it with. Do they just slot in? If so it would make a lot of sense approve
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    can one of you guys tell me aprox cost for a good reconditioned PRV V6 engine? and BA10/5 gearbox? And where i could pick items like these up from?

    Thanks

    Floyd

  9. #9
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Floyd:
    can one of you guys tell me aprox cost for a good reconditioned PRV V6 engine? and BA10/5 gearbox? And where i could pick items like these up from?

    Thanks

    Floyd
    A second hand PRV V6 costs between zero and $300 depending on condition. The parts to fully reconditon one, are in the region of $1500 or more. When you add in the head reconditioning costs, labour, etc, it can easily be a $3000+ job, so I wouldn't advise it unless you can do the work yourself, or you can find a second hand engine which you're sure is in good condition.

    A BA10 with a left hand drive V6 bellhousing, can be picked up from some importers for around $500 or something (so I've heard), but it you are keen on power steering, you need a RHD bellhousing which are very rare.

    There's a guy in Melbourne who casts up new RHD V6 bell housings for around $600, so if you've already got a good BA10, this is the way to go (if you're using a stock standard 2.7 litre V6, it would also be OK to use one of these bell housings on a BA7).

    604 engine mounts will bolt the V6 directly into a 504/505 engine bay, but on the 505 you need to cut away some of the firewall insulation to clear the back of the left hand head, and possibly modify the airbox plasitc a little (probably not too hard with a cheap glass kit, just make sure you you clean out the loose fibres).

    A 604 radiator will fit straight in a 504 or 505, but many people choose to adapt a larger Holden radiator or something else.

    Dave

    <small>[ 11 December 2002, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
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  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    fiveohs:
    .....Ray Bell has put a BA7 5 speed from a 505, into his 504 wagon......
    And I'm not alone in having done so... nor am I the only one who has combined it with a TI engine in the wagon/familiale.

    And, of course, others have just slipped a TI engine into their wagons... found another one the other day.

    Dave... could you please have your mobile on tonight?

  11. #11
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    I don't know why everyone has such an aversion to diesels. They have absolutely huge potential. I had a 505 SRD Turbo, It had a front mount intercooler, straight through 3 inch exhaust, increased boost to 10psi, and revised pump timing. This thing will nail a good 505 gti manual by a considerable margin. Topped out at 190kph with five people in the car while still returning 6L/1ookm Fuel consumption at 110kph. Extremely reliable, and simple servicing.(Oil Changes and valve clearances) Compared to mixtures, timing, points, plugs etc. Absolute care free motoring.

  12. #12
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Diesels are cool, but they don't have the atmosphere that a petrol engine has when you're on a winding road and you drop back to 2nd and gun it. You don't get the burble on over-run either.

    Speed is not the only thing that makes cars fun to drive. Far from it. Some fast cars are no fun to drive, if they don't rev and sound muted, whereas some quite slow-ish cars can be a ball to drive if they rev well and sound alright (especially small engined Italian cars). My low-compression 1600cc 404 was a case in point. It was a ball to drive on a winding mountain road, despite being gutless.

    The "wrong" sound is what makes automatic cars boring for me.

    Don't get me wrong, Diesel Pugs are great to drive, especially the turbo models, but I just have alot more fun driving the petrol models (although I do find the 505GTI and STI disappointing after driving my slightly modified 2 litre carby 504 and 505, so I think I would prefer an SRD or GTD to the GTI or STI).

    If I ever get a 4X4 504 or 505, I'd like a naturally aspirated 2.5 Diesel, for its simplicity and for its fording ability. Likewise one of those Mahindra Jeeps with the Pug diesel would be awesome off road (but scary on road).

    I learnt to drive in a 504 diesel and spent most of my first year of driving using it, so I do have quite an affection for those engines.

    Dave

    <small>[ 23 December 2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
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    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  13. #13
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    clint_on:
    I had a 505 SRD Turbo, It had a front mount intercooler, straight through 3 inch exhaust, increased boost to 10psi, and revised pump timing. .
    Do you have any more specs or pictures of this car? My 504/505 mods website is very lacking in the diesel section, so it would be great to have a hot 505 turbodiesel to feature on it.

    Despite my comments in my previous post, I'd love to see alot more people hot-up the 505 turbodiesel engine.

    Dave

    <small>[ 23 December 2002, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  14. #14
    Gus
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    I too apologise for diesel-bashing. I've heard a lot of diesel-bashing, but I only know one diesel lover.. so I guess all up I should have kept my mouth shut.

    In fact, even when I posted that thing about intercooler/boost, I was thinking "but what if..."


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    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    fiveohs:

    Personally, though, I think a warm 504 carby engine with modified square port head (or even an imported XN1A head) is the way to go, in conjunction with a Peugeot 5 speed box. I like the ratios of the early 505 BA10, but others prefer the BA7 for it's easier shifting.
    Having driven Dave's XN-engined 505 STi, I would definitely agree. "Feel free to take it to six grand" he said... I stopped at 5500rpm but it was quite willing to rev this hard, sounded good, and certainly had plenty of grunt. I used to be keen on V6 conversions but the thirst and underbonnet complication has put me off. Tell us again Dave, what are the specs of your engine??

    John.
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    fiveohs:
    Personally, though, I think a warm 504 carby engine with modified square port head (or even an imported XN1A head) is the way to go, in conjunction with a Peugeot 5 speed box. I like the ratios of the early 505 BA10, but others prefer the BA7 for it's easier shifting.....
    Also addressing this suggestion...

    I firmly believe a lot of 'issues' with the square port head can be overcome by fitting a single SU carby to a modified manifold. I have, I believe, the perfect carby... a Rover 2000 1.75" unit, I think it will give more reliable performance, no drop in power and improved fuel consumption.

    But I won't know till I try it...

  17. #17
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:


    I firmly believe a lot of 'issues' with the square port head can be overcome by fitting a single SU carby to a modified manifold.
    What issues? The only problem with these heads is the ports are too big and some of the corners where the manifold meets the head are too sharp. The corners can be fixed with a bit of filing, and the big ports will be the same whatever the carby.

    Until I blew the headgasket on my modified square port, it went awesome, and the economy was fine, even with a half crushed small bore engine down pipe. I'm very much looking forward to getting it back together (with an 83 or 84 block) and trying out the big bore 505 exhaust manifold that I'm picking up in a few days.

    The more modifications I try to these engines, the more I respect them. They're such a simple engine and the performance is great with just a few simple (and cheap) modifications.

    Dave

    <small>[ 25 December 2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You found a manifold, eh?

    Dave, the 'issues' I have had revolve around the carburettor. Both the Weber that was on the car when I bought it and the Solex that was replaced gave problems.

    SUs simply don't give problems... and I'm certain fuel consumption will be improved. The trick is to do a neat installation that utilises the standard air cleaner. I'm sure I can work that out...

  19. #19
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:

    You found a manifold, eh?
    ...
    Yeah, the one I swapped away 18 months ago is now coming back to me with a brand new engine pipe and a coat of heat proof paint.
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Strangely enough, I spotted one the other day...

    Don't know if I can get it or not though.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Back to the thread. Greg Park, whose whereabouts should be known to Rob Cherry or maybe Bill Hamilton of PCCV(ictoria), stuck a V8 in his 504. Was quick too. Can't remember if it was a Rover or Leyland motor.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Are you sure that's not the one Paul Quinn did?

  23. #23
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    Ray,
    No, Paul Quinn's has had a V6 for many years. The V8 motor stayed in Canberra when Merik Karman, the guy who bought it off Paul, sold the car to Richard Davies. Zac Edwards now has the shell, a bit tired (rusty) now, it will probably be scrapped. A pity since it is the original Basil Wadman 77 Lon-Syd marathon car.
    Greg Park's car is fitted with a 3.5 Rover motor, the Quinn car had a P76 4.4 litre.

    Actually, I like Paul's 2.5 litre Daimler V8 in a 203 conversion the best, what a fun machine that would be!

    Graham Wallis

  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Yes, indeed it was... I was there when Paul was building both those cars...

    He had 'issues' with the gearbox adaptation for the V8... I only saw the Alfa-engined 404 when it was finished, but I found him the diff he needed to get the ratios right... a 404 ute that had had it's strut ball joint fall apart.

    He got the diff and fixed the ute as well... using the 3.89 diff.

  25. #25
    nJm
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    Are there any really simple and cheap performance boosts for the XN1? I'm only just really starting to build up a basic tool kit and have just a beginner's knowlegde (and the good ol' Haynes manual).

    Would the first step be in the ignition? Better spark plugs, ht leads and dissy? What else? Any 'easy' carburettor mods? I have almost no money and as you know very little know how.

    Thanks folks blush
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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