Other Carbies on 550SR autos??????
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Other Carbies on 550SR autos??????

    My question is very simialar to AlsPug504 but in relation to a 505 auto early model, 1984.
    XN1 engine. What type of carbie would be best.
    Our wagon has dreadful economy and the acceleration is dropping of a litle. Yes big car small engine, but it has to be better than this.
    I don't want to change to a manual box as the my wife is the main driver.

    One choice is obvious WEBER 32/36, or another option I have looked at is a WEBER 38DGAS which is similar to a Holley 350 in that it is not a progressive 2 barrel but similtaneous 2 barrel.
    Would this be too much go juice over the whole range?

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    Any ideas greatly appreciated.
    Thanks guys....Chris
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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    keep the 38DGAS for when you get a 604
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Thanx heaps Rambo............... mallet

    not quite the reply I was aftre but will take all suggestions on board...not saying I'll pay them all though...the better half loves her 505 wagon peugeot_ .
    sssssshhhhhhhh she may hear.... whistle
    I do allow her a little indulgence now and then.
    It's her car, it is actually the first car Sue drove, my lady has good taste. dance cheers!
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    SU off the single carby Rover 2000...

    How many times do I have to say it? Perfect for the job, it will deliver economy despite your leadfooted ways.

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:
    SU off the single carby Rover 2000...

    How many times do I have to say it? Perfect for the job, it will deliver economy despite your leadfooted ways.
    each to their own
    those who play with holleys say go holley
    those who play with webers say go weber
    those who play with SU's say go SU
    so on and so on

    personaly i prefer webers for price and availability and of course they are easy to play with and tune
    i have played with SU's and holleys but have never really likes them
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  6. #6
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    Try an early 504 carby, pre 1977.
    You will probably never get a Weber tuned correctly, unless you manage to find one of the carbies that Rolwland Pym imported which were manufactured to suit Peugeots.
    If you insist, get a DCD,(Cortina GT, Fiat 1500), at least these are fully adjustable, the later carbies were built to a price to suit a particular model only.
    I spent quite a bit of time on a DGAV and got a substantial boost in performance when I went back to the Solex.
    A new distributor and an early carby should solve your problems.
    Also, check that the EGR valve is not stuck open.
    I have a Volvo Stromberg (similar to SU) if you want to try Ray's (good) idea.
    Graham Wallis

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Yes, the Stromberg is another option. Were they off the 144?

    Be zillions of these around at zero cost too...

  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    orange17:
    My question is very simialar to AlsPug504 but in relation to a 505 auto early model, 1984.
    XN1 engine. What type of carbie would be best.
    Our wagon has dreadful economy and the acceleration is dropping of a litle.
    Chris,

    The Weber 32DIR from a Renault 12 works quite well on automatic Pugs, because it has small venturis which give good low speed torque and economy. They also match up to the Pug aircleaner, unlike the 32/36 DGV (which can be particularly thirsty on auto cars).

    Deka's parents have a 32DIR on their auto 504 and it works great. Maybe he could tell you what jets it's using.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  9. #9
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    You will probably never get a Weber tuned correctly, unless you manage to find one of the carbies that Rolwland Pym imported which were manufactured to suit Peugeots.
    If you insist, get a DCD,(Cortina GT, Fiat 1500), at least these are fully adjustable, the later carbies were built to a price to suit a particular model only.
    I've never had any trouble getting good performance and economy with a DGV on a manual 504/505. The performance improvement varies from engine to engine. If the engine is below 8.5:1, with a GL camshaft and early type head and unmodified inlet manifold, then often a Solex carby in good nick will actually give equal or sometimes even better performance as you say, but I don't think there's any substitute for a Weber once you start to modify the rest of the motor (especially since different size jets and airbleeds are almost unobtainable for the Solex anymore).

    As for the DCD, I could never cure the fuel starvation problem around fast sharp right hand corners. My father had the same problem with his Cortina GT on the back corner of Amaroo racing circuit. It's a well known problem with the DCD during performance use, and results from the pickup holes for the jets not being central to the fuel bowl. The Cortina GTs were lucky that Mt Panorama is an anti-clockwise circuit, otherwise they would NOT have won.

    Dave

    <small>[ 15 April 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  10. #10
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    Dave, my experiments were with standard cams so you may be right here.
    Never had any trouble with the DCD in terms of surge on my rally car except over really rough roads.

    Graham wallis

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Thanks so afr guys.
    Graham, thanks for the offer How much do you want for the carb?
    Ray, where would I get a manifold for such a beast??

    Dave, wouldn't the engine starve for fuel at revs up round 4500+ with the 32dir???
    Someone mentioned the EGR valve, where is that located?
    I have checked the auto choke and it looks to be functioning ok. So I have ruled that out. Is changing the dizz necessary. Would you change to a points distributor from the electronic one there now?

    Cheers Chris.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    unless you are running high revs all the time there is really no need to change from points but if it has already been done then leave it

    have a look for a cylindrical looking cannister thing with a pipe running from the exhaust manifold and that will be the EGR valve
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  13. #13
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You'd have to make an adaptor to fit the SU or Stromberg... not hard to do, though nutting it out to make it nice would take a little thought.

    I have plans to do one, actually to make a pattern and get some castings done, but like many things, they're plans and only plans...

    You might find, however, that some aftermarket carby specialist has such an elbow type adaptor made up already. A useful man with a bit of oxy gear in his workshop could knock one up in a few hours.

  14. #14
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    This could be a strange route, but why not try a jap carby of a 2.6 litre Mitsubishi Magna. They are redily available, designed with a slightly bigger engine in mind (so should breath well), and should give reasonable economy. I think you will find the base plate is similar to a webber carb.

  15. #15
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    orange17:
    Dave, wouldn't the engine starve for fuel at revs up round 4500+ with the 32dir???
    Chris,

    I think you mean air not fuel. The smaller carburetor will mean the engine breaths less well above 5000rpm, but this shouldn't be an issue on an auto car. If you had a manual car I would be recommending something bigger, but autos are a different kettle of fish and tend to respond more to moderately sized throats with smallish sized venturis (like in the 32DIR), rather than outright overall size. Deka's experience with his father's automatic 504 seems to confirm this theory.

    You may have to adjust the jetting to suit a 2 litre, although the R12 jets are similar in size (120, i.e. 1.2mm) as in the 32mm throat in the 505 solex carb.

    Dave

    <small>[ 16 April 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  16. #16
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    Chris, How does $30 plus postage sound? Air Cleaner included.
    Graham

  17. #17
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    Sorry, I forgot you have an electronic distributor, it will probably be OK.
    The EGR valve is situated under its vacuumn actuator to the rear of the carby. There is a pipe from the exhasust manifold which goes to the inlet manifold via the EGR valve. If it sticks open there will be continual leakage of air into the inlet manifold which will make for very lean mixtures and poor running. You might like to block of the pipe running into the inlet manifold, this is illegal, of course.

    Graham Wallis

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    Well orange I guess you could try motorcraft 2150. But I would wait till I have some results.

    I am awaiting bits from a mate!

    Al

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mistareno
    <strong>This could be a strange route, but why not try a jap carby of a 2.6 litre Mitsubishi Magna. They are redily available, designed with a slightly bigger engine in mind (so should breath well), and should give reasonable economy. I think you will find the base plate is similar to a webber carb.
    I agree that there's a little trouble in setting up the SU or CD Stromberg, but I believe the results would be worth it.

    They are notoriously more economical, relatively (if not totally) trouble free, and the units nominated (Rover 2000 and Volvo) will not require much initial tuning to be spot on.

    On the other hand, I doubt that a Magna was ever regarded as economical, so why would its carby be good on the 504 engine?

    <small>[ 16 April 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Ray Bell ]</small>

  20. #20
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    A Magna has an extra 600 cc and two contra rotating balance shafts to drag it down. Hence its not so good economy (although not as bad as one would think bearing in mind the size of car)
    Its eletric auto choke would be easy to setup (in comparison with the webber water temp activated unit)
    And at least if the carb is designed for a slightly bigger motor, you know it will flow enough cfm

  21. #21
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    By the way,

    Fuel consumption figures:

    Mitsubishi Magna TR GLX 2.6 Carb
    City Cycle - 12.02L/100km (26.5 mpg approx)
    Highway Cycle - 7.2 L/100km (37.5 mpg approx)

    Peugeot 505 2.0 Carb OHV
    City Cycle - 23mpg
    Highway Cycle - 30mpg

    Specifications are for sedans (both weigh about the same in sedan form) Bearing in mind the Magna has a 4 speed Automatic versus the 505's 3 speed unit.

  22. #22
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    The manual 505 was listed as 7l /100km om its release.
    Does the auto really use that much more fuel.
    A Triton ute I drove to Hillston and back absolutely drank fuel.

    Graham Wallis

  23. #23
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    The manual 505 was listed as 7l /100km om its release.
    Does the auto really use that much mor fuel?
    Graham Wallis
    The figures were for a 3 speed auto, with the OHV engine.
    The specs were for a UK model so I pressume they are similar in spec....

    P.s I'm sure you could get 7l/100k out of one...at 60kph in top gear on a salt flat.

    BTW - How much does a Triton weigh.......

    <small>[ 17 April 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: mistareno ]</small>

  24. #24
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    and graham how much is left at hilston ???????
    and is any of what is left any good ??????
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  25. #25
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    mistareno:

    Its eletric auto choke would be easy to setup (in comparison with the webber water temp activated unit)
    Genuine Weber electric choke mechanisms for the automatic choke versions of Weber 32/36 models are sold at Weber retailers. These mechanisms will not fit ones which originally had a manual choke because the body casting is slightly different.

    Dave

    <small>[ 17 April 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

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