AD4 repair & parts
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  1. #1
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    Default AD4 repair & parts

    Had 'fun' in the last few days. The AD4 start slipping in 1st so i pulled it and the cause was disintegrated drive plates in the 1st - 3rd clutch and worn reverse brake clutch drive plates (down to 1mm from 1.6mm).
    Found out that B & A or A&B transmission have a contract with Renault to recondition these things. He, Ken, said that because of that he couln't sell me any parts or give any advise re. improvments. Nor would he tell me where he buys parts from. Michael from Melbourn City Auto told me that he wouldn't tell them either even though they rebuild MB transmissions in their workshop.This could be restrictive trade practises???
    Anyhow, VW was very helpful as well as Bayford in Coburg. (Bayford own at least one VW and one Peugeot dealerships i know of.)Only problem with VW is their prices. One drive plate was $50 and i needed three in that clutch. Lucky they had none in the country.
    Lucky again, another guy repairing mainly VW transmissions told me who his parts supplier is. I bought the $50 plates for about $11 + GST each as well as a filter for ca.$27 (Renault price $88 inc GST) and the metal plates that go in between the drive plates.
    A VW parts man told me to change them as well because of hot spots. He did his 'time' working on automatic transmissions on earth moving equipment.
    Hot spots on metal plates prevent the clutchpack from sitting 100% flat and this causes the clutch to slip and chew itself out. He said whenever they had the slightes doubt the replaced the whole pack. Didn't know that.

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    Testdrove it today and gears change beautifully. No more DEXRON III, used Mobile ATF 220 at $30 for 4l.

    Anybody needing transmission parts - let me know and i'll point you in the right direction. Bit hesitant to mention it on the forum as i've already pissed some people in the industry off (e.g. Tony from Manuel Transmissions).

  2. #2
    Banned Haakon's Avatar
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    Geez, sensitve buggers. Exactly how much business are they expecting to lose from a few nutters silly enough to crack open an auto themselves???

    Whats your method for determing correct fluid levels on these things? I have a dipstick I made up, but am not quite convinced I am getting the level right. Plus, I know someone else with an AR4 that needs the DIII replaced, and I bet Renault will charge him a bomb to do it and still probably get the level wrong....

  3. #3
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    Agree, not many would be silly enough to do a trans. job. But look at what it costs to have it done. Not saying they overcharge as it is a lot of work. One trans. technician told me that most places only change the parts they sufficiently worn only. The rest is reused.

    I've checked the oil level with a temp probe as set out in Haynes and had it checked by a dealer with the XR25 and the level was right.
    Normally i do it with a threaded rod. About 85mm when cold and 36mm when warmed up and in D. My thinking is that there has to be a little oil in the sump for it to be picked up and circulated.

  4. #4
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    Hi I'm in the unfortunate position of having to decide whether to pay heaps for an auto repair, try and fix it myself, (I'm competent at repairs that don't need special tools or knowledge) or junk the car so would appreciate any advice here.

    My son's 1991 R19 had the warning light on the dash and was stuck in limp mode. We took it to out local Renault mechanic who told us that it was showing several fault codes, the throttle position sensor circuit, speed sensor circuit, internal hydraulic defect and 2 internal solenoids. He reset the throttle position switch and, after replacing the speed sensor, cleared all the fault codes. They tested the EXC switch which threw it back into limp mode so they disconnected that and cleared the codes again. This time it ran fine on an extended test drive but as soon as they replaced the computer connector cover the warning light came back on and went into limp mode. It seems the cover causes a short so that was removed and tossed. The codes were cleared again and another test drive showed no problems.

    The mechanic had a long chat explaining some of the problems that these transmissions can have and also explained the problem of getting parts etc due to the Renault arrangement. He said it would cost around $3500 for a replacement transmission if the faults recur and that in his experience the internal hydraulic defect code usually signalled the beginning of the end for a transmission. Apparently the trans fluid level was spot on and the fluid is clean and in good nick. This guy has really looked after us in the past and I know he didn't charge for anything like the time he spent on the trans problems.

    The real problem is that after a few short trips around town the #@%~ transmission went back into limp mode again. No warning light this time, just stuck in 3rd. I did what the mechanic told me to to get it out of limp mode and it's running like a dream ...... for now. The mechanic has said that the only real fix is to order a change over trans thru Renault but my son hasn't got that kind of cash since he only works part time while at uni.

    I'm pretty sure I don't want to spend that kind of money on a car that you probably cant even sell for the repair cost once it's fixed. We've already spent $1200 on repairing the power steering rack, brakes and now the transmission. Needless to say junior is not a happy chappy, as if living with a teenager isn't enough fun. The decision to scrap the thing and chalk it up to experience would be easy if it weren't such a great little car when it's running properly.

    What should I do? Is there another avenue open to me for getting this fixed other than line Renault's pockets as a reward for selling a vehicle with a transmission that is designed to die at around the 100,000 km mark? The threads on here make it seem like seem like it's just a matter of time before the trannies in R19s die so I'm hoping that somebody has found a reasonably priced solution. I'll even have a crack at fitting a manual transmission if that's a cost effective alternative.

    I'm open to your advice people.

    Thanks
    Col

  5. #5
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    Hi Col,
    Sorry to hear about another AD4 problem.
    You don't need special tools but a good set of conventional tools with extensions etc.
    Best to take the engine with transmission out as a unit.
    Parts for the transmission are available from independet suppliers - and cheaper than from Renault if they sold them.
    If the internal solanoids or more likely one of them is faulty, you'll have to buy a whole set and only Renault sells those (about $600+ last time i asked). When Volvo had the agency i paid about 350. But if you have an old set with one good solanoid you can replace the faulty one individually by soldering them in.
    To convert to a manual you'd probably need a wrecked manual for parts to make it economical.
    It's not that difficult, just a lot of work and messing.
    Good Luck

  6. #6
    Banned Haakon's Avatar
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    Dark Mist - Sounds more like an electrical fault rather than a hydraulic one. The hydraulics tend to work or not, so if yours behaves itself when its not in limp, it is unlikely to need a rebuild yet. How may Ks on it?

    Worst case I would think is a set of solenoids - these do fail, but I didnt think they would put it into limp mode

    I have run an AR4 (lengthways version of the same trans in an R21) for a while and got 200K km out of it. It was getting clunky when I replaced it with a low Ks one I found, but it was still working. The only problems I had were electrical, do with the circut suppling the computer with power (it would go into limp mode when I used a power window!!)

    You have already highlighted electrical connector issues, so I would be spending some time with a multimeter and checkiing every connector before pullling the transmission!! From my experience with my AR4, I would suggest checking to ensure the computer is getting enough juice - check the voltage at the fuse with and without a load on the accessory circut (windows, demister, cigar lighter, ect) You may be lucky like me and be the victim of old french electrical connections with high reistances.

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Joe,

    mate, tell us your took lots of piccies of the stripdown, and list the automatic guys and parts suppliers that were helpful. They deserve our business is a big way !!

    It's bloody disgusting the way you were treated by the sounds of this. Renault will most certainly *not* be getting my bussiness in the future if there trying this sort of [email protected] on (No doubt Citroen does it too.... so "shane == avoid slugomatic trannies like the plague").

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
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    Hi Shane,
    haven't got the contact handy as it is in my random fileing system. Sorry did not take photos (daughter has camera and is in London) but i'm thinking of buying one once i can make up my mind. I'll probably 'do' another one shortly.
    If anyone needs the contact urgently, i'll find it - just mail me.

    Hi Dark Mist,
    you can check the solenoids with a multimeter from the plug at tne trans. computer. Should be in the mid 50 ohms from memory.
    I'll send you a diagram if you want. It'll be by post as my scanner is kaput.
    The TPS is for the engine computer. Don't understand why it needed resetting. Did anybody fiddle with it?
    The TPS for the transmission is a variable potentiometer. You shoud get an even response when connected to a multimeter. If there is a problem it would be in the lower reve range as we usually drive there. So the track may have worne?
    Internal hydraulic defect. Agree with your mechanic. Could be a leaking piston or worn drive plates.
    What do you mean by computer connector cover? the auto trans. computer has no cover. The engine computer has.???
    As i mentioned, the cheap way of fixing it is by doing all the work yourself.
    BTW the only special tool is G clamps and fitted wooden blocks to compress springs in order to remove circlips in the transmission.

    Also what Haakon says about enough voltage/current getting to the system is spot on. I know of another case with a faulty window motor/switch that upset the auto computer. Even a blown globe that indicates the auto (squiggly one) on the instrument panel causes problems.

    Cheers
    Last edited by JoBo; 3rd February 2006 at 10:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Thanks for the advice. At least now I have something to go on with, that will give me a chance to find and fix the fault. An electrical fault seems likely to me because the trannie has been running smooth as a baby's bum the whole time. And the mechanic had to reset the codes 3 times, 2 times because something electrical was touched.

    The invoice I have says that the auto ECU was removed and checked internally. The mechanic told me that it all seemed fine after he cleared the fault codes, fitted thereplacement speed sensor and reset the pedal position sensor. When he used the EXC switch it went back into limp mode and the warning light came back on. He then cleared the fault codes and disconnected the EXC switch. The questionable cover that caused a short was around 1 1/2 inches long almost square and had around 4 metal pins inside. Obviously designed to cover a socket. I presumed it was the connector for the diagnostic for the ECU because the way he spoke it was this connector that he plugged the diagnostic into to determine which actual fault codes were being reported. I will have to ask him where the thing came from but I had the impression it was under the dash.

    I will start checking the electrical connections etc as soon as I can. I'm working for most of this weekend but should be able to spend some time of an evening next week. You mention that it is possible for a blown globe to cause problems. Now that I think about it I think that the trannie warning light should come on at start and go out once car is running. This doesn't light up at all at present.

    I have a Haynes workshop manual so I should be able to test the solenoids etc as suggested. Jo, if I can't work it out I'll take up the offer of a diagram though.

    Thanks again to everyone for their assistance. I'll be sure to post my progress or lack of it.

    Col

  10. #10
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    The diagnostic plug should not be causing any problems, and if it is it is easily fixed. All it is is about 4 wires from the engine and trans computers that allow the diagnostic equipment to log into the computer chips and access their memory. The cover has a couple of tracks to connect a couple of the wires when in place (look inside the cover and you will see the tracks). Just make sure the connections are clean and tight and all should be well there.

    I have never had a problem with these, even on the R25 that has this plug in teh scuttle exposed to elements.

    Another fault these things get is the trans pressure sensor - it leaks internally and actually pumps trans fluid up the lead and into the trans computer!! Not a good design... But if your nechanic had the trans computer open, he would have seen this. Also easy to tell as the connector at the computer will be soaked in fluid. Doesnt usually upset the computer though.

    I would be putting another EXC switch in too. Unusual to have a problem, but just disconnecting it isnt a good way to fix a problem. Check it for shorts/high resistances, which will upset the computer

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