205 cooling repairs
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default 205 cooling repairs

    hi, ive just done a few repairs/mods to my pug.
    the radiator was leaking so i renewed it with an aluminium rad i bought from ebay. i renewed the rad rubber mounts, the rubbers that hold the springs in place on top of the rad, fan switch (copper) seal, drain plug & seal(which i dont need). i flushed the system prior to removal with nulon flush, worked ok.
    i had already removed the a/c tank between the rad & fans but had to remove the plastic side/bottom panels clipped onto the fan housing + reshaped the springs and the radiator fits perfect!
    i removed the inlet tank (rear of block with 3 hose-inlets), it was in good cond & refitted with a new seal. i also replaced the thermostat #Tridon TT276-180(supercheapauto), thermo housing & thermo/housing seals which came with the XU gasket kit (no head gasket) #0197.H6.
    i marked the distributor then removed, cleaned & refitted with a new o-ring. i found a place that sell kits to recondition the distributor, which i will when necessary.
    i removed the choke assembly: choke housing + air housing(s.a.d), cleaned and refitted.
    most of the hoses have been replaced with either a genuine part or silicone, expense being of most importance: lower rad- pipe #1307.X0 $26, pipe (intm water hose)#1307.78 $45, pipe- inlet tank(housing at rear of block) #1307.W9 $20, upper rad- thermo #1343.C3(no oil cooler) $38, thermo- choke ctrl housing #1351.04 $16.
    in silicone & lengths approximates only (cut from metre lengths): upper rad- exp tank 3/8(9.5mm) 1450mm, thermo- throttle 3/8 500mm, throttle- exp 3/8 450mm + 1/2(12mm) 550mm, exp- inlet tank 3/4(19mm) 900mm, matrix- choke ctrl 5/8(16mm) rubber(waiting on silicone) + 3/4 silicone. i used 2 inline connectors (1/2 and 3/4) for the joins with hose clamps. the only hose i didnt replace was the matrix- inlet, with the air-bleeder valve, but i did remove & clean it. soon i will replace it with silicone hose, the valve is easy to remove.
    i cleaned the exp tank with white vinegar + hot water and used a bottle brush to get inside(i do the same with coffee machine boilers), cleaned the level sensor & refitted everything.
    i sourced the parts used from various places around Sydney & UK.
    when i receive the 5/8 hose + other bits i will also replace the water pump & timing belt + tensioner. in time i also want to have a look at the outlet tank(housing on LHS of head).
    the temp. is slightly better, more stable.
    dont hesitate to ask me any questions.
    hope this info helps. ty.
    Puggy.

    when i get my camera back i will post some pics.

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  2. #2
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    Piccys would be great, what temp is it running at, mine runs at about 90 degrees and creeps up to 95 in stop start traffic, as a result with the orginal oil cooler which has the coolant running around it the oil gets quite hot in stop start condtions, so would be interested to see what you have done..
    05' Megane 225 Cup

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugsy
    Piccys would be great, what temp is it running at, mine runs at about 90 degrees and creeps up to 95 in stop start traffic, as a result with the orginal oil cooler which has the coolant running around it the oil gets quite hot in stop start condtions, so would be interested to see what you have done..
    Why does the little poogoe have an oil cooler ?? The temperatur should stabilise within the range that the radiator fans come on in traffic.

    Eg: I can sit in traffic and watch my coolant temperature guage slowly cycle from 85 - 90 backto 85 as the cooling fans cycle on and off at there set temperatures.

    If you have an oil cooler that is tapped into the cooling sytem what you will find happens is the oil temperature rapidly rises to match the coolant temperature. The oil temp in my car sits usually at exactly the same temperature in traffic as the coolant. It spirals rapidly if I use boost for any reason (eg: climbing hills, overtaking, towing big loads).

    I'm not sure why the 1.9litre 205/405/BX/etc... motor needs an oil cooler I didn't realise they did, it's just another thing to go 'wrong'.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    They need an oil cooler because they'll spin a shell without one, if you work them hard.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    They need an oil cooler because they'll spin a shell without one, if you work them hard.
    Thanks Peter,

    you must drive them a lot harder than I ever managed. A N/A low power output engine with a 5litre sump heating the oil to the point where it'll spin bearing shells I seriously would never have thought that possible. (BTW: You don't need to post pictorial evidence, I believe you ).

    seeya
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    It's not very common in cooler climates, so you don't here about it much on European forums, but on a hot day with 5L of oil and no oil cooler, it's easy to see 130+ deg. after just 3 laps. The only way I know to keep them together, short of a dry sump, is to use a baffled 6.5L sump and fit a remote oil cooler that isn't preheated by the water. That will keep it at 100-105 deg., the perfect running temp., even on the hottest days.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  7. #7
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    Peter where abouts do you locate the air-to-air oil cooler on a 205, not much spcae left in the front with radiator and condensor in place and when removing the coolant cooler do you just plug the coolant hose that runs into cooler up or is there a hose with no holes that fits. I am planning on an air-to-air cooler hopefully sometime next year on my 205
    05' Megane 225 Cup

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    It's not very common in cooler climates, so you don't here about it much on European forums, but on a hot day with 5L of oil and no oil cooler, it's easy to see 130+ deg. after just 3 laps. The only way I know to keep them together, short of a dry sump, is to use a baffled 6.5L sump and fit a remote oil cooler that isn't preheated by the water. That will keep it at 100-105 deg., the perfect running temp., even on the hottest days.
    Peter

    I do not have an oil cooler on my 106 Rallye (1.6L, 16V, 168 hp) because opinions are separated as to whether one would improve performance. I have burned exhaust valves four times (one each time, always a different one) after extended times (20-30 minutes) at 6000-8000 rpm's. The A/F gauge never showed a lean mixture and I never heard pinging, but I did notice that the tempetature was getting up there, but never into the red. I don't have an exhaust gases temperature gauge and this may be the next thing I install, but I want to solve the problem, not avoid it. I changed the O2 sensor but it did not help and I will now get it on the dyno againj and retard the timing around one degree and see what happens. I am somehow convinced that if i install an oil cooler and reduce advance the problem will go away. The oil coolers from a Lancia Integrale fit exactly and we have plently around. Any ideas?

    Thanks

    Thanos

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugsy
    Peter where abouts do you locate the air-to-air oil cooler on a 205, not much spcae left in the front with radiator and condensor in place and when removing the coolant cooler do you just plug the coolant hose that runs into cooler up or is there a hose with no holes that fits. I am planning on an air-to-air cooler hopefully sometime next year on my 205

    Hi, Peter's original one was out the front down low.

    I managed to fit mine, a 16 row, between the radiator and the cooling fans. Had to space it all a bit differently and drill a few holes for angle brackets, bit it fits fine.

    Pipes come out the bottom and the circuit replaces one of the pipes to the remote filter (without cooler). Initially used too stiff hoses but have now got it sorted. Makes a huge difference on the track.

    Cheers

    Jim

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pug303
    Hi, Peter's original one was out the front down low.

    I managed to fit mine, a 16 row, between the radiator and the cooling fans. Had to space it all a bit differently and drill a few holes for angle brackets, bit it fits fine.

    Pipes come out the bottom and the circuit replaces one of the pipes to the remote filter (without cooler). Initially used too stiff hoses but have now got it sorted. Makes a huge difference on the track.

    Cheers

    Jim
    My 1.9 Euro Spec car has an air to oil cooler mounted where the second electric fan goes on the local (air conditioned) cars.
    Graham

  11. #11
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    Thank you Puggy, I have saved your post for future reference.

    Rick

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Are all these cars we speak of track cars

    The reason I ask is I *like* the fact my car has a oil cooler that is pre-heated by the coolant. Lets face it a huge amount of our daily driving is cold starts and rolling along with little load on the motor. I'd prefer my oil be warmed to running temperature ASAP. So the oil cooler is doing two jobs, heating your oil as quickly as possible to running temperature. And cooling it. Sure not cooling it with a fraction of the ability of the proper remote oil coolers, but on a daily driven production car, we don't want our oil being overly cold for an extended warm up period.

    Is my understanding of this wrong

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Thank you Puggy, I have saved your post for future reference.

    Rick
    glad to be of service. hoping to post some pics on the weekend.
    Puggy.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugsy
    Piccys would be great, what temp is it running at, mine runs at about 90 degrees and creeps up to 95 in stop start traffic, as a result with the orginal oil cooler which has the coolant running around it the oil gets quite hot in stop start condtions, so would be interested to see what you have done..
    i will take a pic of the gauge, if i was able to post a small mpeg i could show how the coolant flows into the exp tank from the throttle when i remove the cap.
    Puggy.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Are all these cars we speak of track cars

    The reason I ask is I *like* the fact my car has a oil cooler that is pre-heated by the coolant. Lets face it a huge amount of our daily driving is cold starts and rolling along with little load on the motor. I'd prefer my oil be warmed to running temperature ASAP. So the oil cooler is doing two jobs, heating your oil as quickly as possible to running temperature. And cooling it. Sure not cooling it with a fraction of the ability of the proper remote oil coolers, but on a daily driven production car, we don't want our oil being overly cold for an extended warm up period.

    Is my understanding of this wrong

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    my pug is my daily driving car, atm. like i had mentioned i tried where possible to cut cost without compromising on quality. i did look into making a fitting with either a T-piece or 2 threaded fittings with washers + o-rings for seals. i havent dismantled the original hose yet, the one with the "Duralite" fitting(made by Kleber) but might even re-use this if necessary.
    Puggy.

    as an example: the hose from the rad- exp tank costs Genuine $140 where 3/8 silicone cost $18.00 p/m, exp- inlet $135 3/4 silicone $23 p/m.
    Puggy.
    Last edited by 205puggypower; 7th December 2005 at 02:27 PM.

  16. #16
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    i created a gallery but it only allows 4 pics
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/vbp...?do=view&g=238
    heres some more pics, better quality on the weekend:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 205 cooling repairs-005-205pp-halfinchconnection.jpg   205 cooling repairs-006-205pp-rad-top-rhs-hose.jpg  
    Last edited by 205puggypower; 7th December 2005 at 05:06 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default hi there

    now i have the standard "oil to water" oil cooler just at the oil filter.

    i am thinking about running both "oil to air" and "oil to water" coolers in series so that u get the best of both worlds, quick warm up and good ultimate cooling.

    My car is standard though and i have to be driving at over 120 kph or using LOTS of revs to make the oil temp go up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aston
    now i have the standard "oil to water" oil cooler just at the oil filter.

    i am thinking about running both "oil to air" and "oil to water" coolers in series so that u get the best of both worlds, quick warm up and good ultimate cooling.

    My car is standard though and i have to be driving at over 120 kph or using LOTS of revs to make the oil temp go up.
    im not too worried on start up. as a habit with my pug or other family cars i drive i always sit idle for a few minutes for warm-up and usually in sydney the temp is relatively mild so my biggest concern was more for cooling. the drive on the weekend gave me a chance to see how the temps would hold up and they barely moved. also the fans work a lot less.
    im still waiting for my camera to get some nice pics
    Puggy.

  19. #19
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    I haven't had oil temp issues in the last two years my car has been without the cooler (due to abuse by the previous-previous owner), and although it's an S1, it has spent extended time in the redline. In fact, the cooling fans were only ever switched to high after rapidly slowing pace when on a long fang, stop-start traffic was handled by the low fan.

    I mean, sure my engine is dead... but that was because of misfortune and rogue flywheel bolts, not searing oil. :p

    My new S3 engine has a cooler though, i might be tempted to put an oil-air cooler in where the air-con radiator was (condenser, whatever).
    1987 205 GTI - Graphite Grey - 206k km's
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