Blown Head Gasket ?
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  1. #1
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    Default Blown Head Gasket ?

    Hey all,

    Trying to get the old 505 up and running again. After getting the engine unseized and many attempts to turn the engine over it finally started.

    After monitoring the engine while it was running I saw that the radiator was shooting water out of the over flow and would not stop. And the water was very brown like their was rust in it. And the Temperature goes sky high. Also looks like their maybe some water in the oil.

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    I have been able to take the car for a short drive around the block but thats it. The engine seems to drive very well and still has lots of power. But my first guess is the Head gasket is blown. I might take the head off next weekend and have a look.

    Am I on the right track ?

    Cheers,

    Glen.
    1981 505GR sedan - Work in Progress

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Ren25's Avatar
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    Yep, you're on the right track. Hate to be a prophet of doom but old poogoos (and others) are notorious for corroded heads if correct coolant hasn't been used. Pull it apart and hope for the best
    Good Luck
    Mike
    Armageddon was yesterday
    Today we have a problem


    2000 406 Hdi X 3
    2003 307 Hdi

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren25
    Yep, you're on the right track. Hate to be a prophet of doom but old poogoos (and others) are notorious for corroded heads if correct coolant hasn't been used. Pull it apart and hope for the best
    Good Luck
    Mike

    Hey mate, I was also wondering if you, or anyone else on the forum could tell me what tension the bolts on the head need to be re-tightened to ? And is there any kind of sequence when tightening the head bolts ?

    Cheers,

    Glen.
    1981 505GR sedan - Work in Progress

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Head gasket.

    Quote Originally Posted by PuGmAn
    Hey mate, I was also wondering if you, or anyone else on the forum could tell me what tension the bolts on the head need to be re-tightened to ? And is there any kind of sequence when tightening the head bolts ?

    Cheers,

    Glen.
    Glen,
    Have a look in your glovebox book the correct method is detailed within.
    No book ? Off the top of my head. Tightening procedure. From two centre bolts work outwards in a circular movement. Initial tension 5mkg [36 ftlbs].
    Then from the centre bolts [one at a time]. Slacken off then re-tighten to 15ft lbs. Then angle tighten 90 degrees. [1/4 turn].
    If the new gasket is the "mono torque" type it is not necessary to re torque later. Dont forget the tappets.

    This procedure has been covered in previous posts so watch out for the rush of alternate methods. The above is the correct Pug way.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Here's what the Haynes 505 manual says about it.

    Matt.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blown Head Gasket ?-cyl-hd-tight-seq.jpg   Blown Head Gasket ?-torque-settings.jpg  
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    A motor once cooked to a tender turn and seized is never going to be the same again.
    It sounds as though you have a head problem and the gasket is the likely culprit. If you have locked up the motor due to over heating then the rings and big ends are on the way out.

    Carefully consider freshening up the head on a secondhand motor, rather than throw money at a potential black hole.


    A bitter experence in the past has demonstrated the need for caution in such instances.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Glen,
    Have a look in your glovebox book the correct method is detailed within.
    No book ? Off the top of my head. Tightening procedure. From two centre bolts work outwards in a circular movement. Initial tension 5mkg [36 ftlbs].
    Then from the centre bolts [one at a time]. Slacken off then re-tighten to 15ft lbs. Then angle tighten 90 degrees. [1/4 turn].
    If the new gasket is the "mono torque" type it is not necessary to re torque later. Dont forget the tappets.

    This procedure has been covered in previous posts so watch out for the rush of alternate methods. The above is the correct Pug way.
    Hey mate,

    Just wondering, what do I do with the tappets ?

    Sorry i`m not very experienced when it comes to the internals of motors.

    Cheers, Glen
    1981 505GR sedan - Work in Progress

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Head gasket etc.

    Glen,
    After replacing a head gasket it is necessary to carry out tappet or valve clearance adjustments. The new gasket's thickness will have either closed or opened up the clearances. Adjustment must only be done on a cold engine.

    All the information you'll need should be in your handbook. Follow the instructions carefully.

    Ps. Matt might follow this up with one of his detailed thumbnails.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Glen,

    I hope this is of help. The inlet clearances should be set to 0,10mm (0,004") and the exhaust set to 0,25mm (0,010"). As Wibebeest has said do them when they are cold. It's a bit of an art as you are never too sure whether you have the right amount of pressure on the feeler guages. Too much and the guage sticks and is hard to move, too little and it feels loose. When you tighten the lock nut this will also tend to reduce the clearance as it causes the ball stud (Haynes terminology, I would have called it the slotted thing in the rocker arm you turn with a screwdriver) to rotate clockwise and tighten. The clearances are set when the locknut is tight and you have the above mentioned clearances.

    As to the use of the socket (35mm) on the crankshaft pulley, you shouldn't need it. If you have a manual gearbox you are in luck. Put it into 3rd wth the handbrake off and push the car to move the rockers. If it is an auto you can try and turn the fan belt by hand to turn the motor over (with it in neutral). If this is too hard, loosen the plugs so they can be removed and try again. This will get rid of the compression factor and make it easier to turn the fan belt. Leave the plugs sitting there to stop stuff falling into the cylinders. Now's a good time to replace the plugs with new ones if they've been in there for a while. The plugs are BP6ES or equivalent.

    Good luck,

    Matt.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blown Head Gasket ?-tappet-setting.jpg  
    Last edited by Ralph; 11th December 2005 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Spelling, punctuation and grammar up to shit
    On the internet, no one knows that you are only wearing a fez.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph
    Glen,

    I hope this is of help. The inlet clearances should be set to 0,10mm (0,004") and the exhaust set to 0,25mm (0,010"). As Wibebeest has said do them when they are cold. It's a bit of an art as you are never too sure whether you have the right amount of pressure on the feeler guages. Too much and the guage sticks and is hard to move, too little and it feels loose. When you tighten the lock nut this will also tend to reduce the clearance as it causes the ball stud (Haynes terminology, I would have called it the slotted thing in the rocker arm you turn with a screwdriver) to rotate clockwise and tighten. The clearances are set when the locknut is tight and you have the above mentioned clearances.


    Matt.
    A little tip to avoid the problem of "forcing" the adjustment.

    Get a lid full of light engine oil to dip the feeler gauge in, (can be messy but works), the "gap" should be filled by the feeler easily and slide in with little resistance.

    The 1 over and 1 under gauge fit, (one, an easy pass, the other a no go), is a way of checking.

    Also if you can afford it, have separate feelers for each gap being measured, (it means you do not shuffle between gap sizes and you do not have to hold onto a great wedge of metal over the engine.

    Try to use a feeler with a good neat edge, as old worn sides will tend to force the gap. Don’t worry after the 4th or 5th head change it will seem easy and you will wonder what all the fuss was all about.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Default all credit to the guy getting a 505 to go again

    505 engine is a good motor
    all i can think of in addition is check for block warpage
    head warpage
    get tha valve regrind set
    clean all surfaces very well
    flush out the radiator and water jackets if you got oil in the water/coolant
    and i hope the engine didnt get so hot it damaged the rings or pistons
    i mean in losing their tension

    i used to retap the head bolt threads in the block and clean and oil the head bolts before retensioning

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