BX auto update; another scam revealed?
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  1. #1
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Icon5 BX auto update; another scam revealed?

    Been like the proverbial lizard drinking as I try to get a few things sorted pre Christmas, but in the process, it seems a bit more info on the BX/ZF gearboxes has revealed itself.
    Maybe I'm a bit cynical, but this to me has all the smell of another potential scam. I could never understand why the majority of repairers would either run and hide whenever the dirty words "Automatic Transmission" were used, few could ever seem to hold an intelligent conversation about issues involving them, yet the words "four and a harf grand" seemed to roll off the tongue with ease whenever anyone asked what it would cost to repair one.
    I know that a couple of the professional repairers who frequent this forum have successfully repaired them well below the $4500 often quoted and also have seemed non plussed about tackling them and it's not my intention to gazump them on it or to ask for any trade secrets, but what we have discovered is more than a bit interesting both for owners and repairers, as there is every possibility that repairers sending them for "Auto transmission specialists" to sub contract the work, may also have been victims of this one.
    I've written it up in the Archives so it is kept to the fore for future reference.

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...245#post275245

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    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Meggsy's Avatar
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    A & B transmissions repai those transmissions for a range of import companies .. they are located in Melbourne I have always found them most helpful ...... I know that tey are in MELBOURNE actually at Murrembeena. but that does not stop them providing guidance and assistance

    cheers
    Meggsy
    Current - 4007HDi
    Had - 407 HDI 406 SV 404, 504, 505 GR and STI. 405 GR ( carbie version) STI, MI16
    And an Austin 1800
    Learnt to drive in 203 Convertible and a 403 SW

  3. #3
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    Alan, don't understand it either. Don't know what the fuss is all about automatic transmissions. I've repaired 3 AD4's. Not a problem. But i gave up on my daughter's Pulsar 5 speed manual. Well, it was cheap to get a replacment, so,why bother.
    The myth of repairing auto trans. is perpetuated by withholding simple info in Aus. It's easier to get that info from England - as i have.
    It's also a mystery to me why manufactures are not more helpful. In the long run they would earn brownie points instead of ripping customers in the short term.

    JoBo

  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Well for some reason they all seem to get treated like a black art form out here.
    I bought a BX16Trs a few years back that had been owned by a Cit specialist who reckoned he had changed the auto for a manual due to the auto having clapped out and with a life expectancy of 120K klms, a story we've all heard before, wouldn't waste time fitting another auto.
    I know a few on here who have done transmissions and the common denominator seems to be the $4500 quote to repair.
    As a result of this, I know of one member here who had a BX auto with under 100K klms who popped a transmission and then spent an arm and a leg and about 3 months getting it converted to manual, has another that did a box about the same time and in the case of the low mileage auto had it "thrown away" before he could collect after the manual conversion.
    I have accessed 2 service manuals now from overseas that have been used in this auto business and proved to be invaluable, but there's a BX on eBay at present that was showing all these symptoms that possibly could be restored for a very reasonable figure.
    As I say, I know of a couple of repairers on here who don't have any great issues with them, but there's plenty more only too willing to tell fairy tales to keep the myth of the deeply complicated autos on the boil so they can no doubt continue to plunder owners wallets.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Been like the proverbial lizard drinking as I try to get a few things sorted pre Christmas, but in the process, it seems a bit more info on the BX/ZF gearboxes has revealed itself.
    Maybe I'm a bit cynical, but this to me has all the smell of another potential scam. I could never understand why the majority of repairers would either run and hide whenever the dirty words "Automatic Transmission" were used, few could ever seem to hold an intelligent conversation about issues involving them, yet the words "four and a harf grand" seemed to roll off the tongue with ease whenever anyone asked what it would cost to repair one.
    I know that a couple of the professional repairers who frequent this forum have successfully repaired them well below the $4500 often quoted and also have seemed non plussed about tackling them and it's not my intention to gazump them on it or to ask for any trade secrets, but what we have discovered is more than a bit interesting both for owners and repairers, as there is every possibility that repairers sending them for "Auto transmission specialists" to sub contract the work, may also have been victims of this one.
    I've written it up in the Archives so it is kept to the fore for future reference.

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/sho...245#post275245


    Alan S
    Please keep us posted on this one, as the repair progresses.

    One thing I have noticed on ZF transmissions (3HP22's) is that the filter mesh is is incredibly fine - some people say you cant really clean them - I always buy a new ZF one when I open them up.
    So I am not surprised to hear they clag up with goop!
    (And another factor to add to the 'conspiracy' - its real hard to get ZF original or good aftermarket parts here unless you buy from dealers or have a few mates in the trade.)

    Torque converters can usually be fixed by cutting them in half & cleaning them out, put in a few new bushes & welding them up again - so I guess this supports your theory.

    Auto gearboxes are very clever engineering & manual boxes are quite primitive. Most autos have a fatal flaw, but these flaws are quite well known and repairs are not clouded in mystery (or expensive) like the ZF.

    For example there is a $1 bit in a Trimatic (604) that breaks - it's right inside and reqiures a semi stripdown and you would be silly not to also replace any worn items. But this only costs about $500 max to do.

    In Mercedes trans there is a regular fault in the 'B" cylinder seal. Annother cheap bit - & in most models you can do the fix from outside with the box in the car.
    So many projects - so little time.

  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I think you could be right about the filter. I didn't physically see it, but it was described as being made out of stuff like an LHM in tank filter and it was a mammoth job to clean. He washed in petrol, blew it out and kept repeating this until it was as clean as possible.
    Had little option as he lives well north of Brisbane and gets bits from Sydney and the car cannot afford to be off the road any longer than is absolutely necessary. He did tell me he has ordered a set of gaskets, seals and filters (or at least intended doing) and as he has dealt with Wongy at Auto France for many years, I'd say that's where they'll come from and if not available, he'll possibly just hang five until he gets stock so for future reference, that's a starting point for anyone wanting the bits.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    farmerdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    Please keep us posted on this one, as the repair progresses.

    One thing I have noticed on ZF transmissions (3HP22's) is that the filter mesh is is incredibly fine - some people say you cant really clean them - I always buy a new ZF one when I open them up.
    So I am not surprised to hear they clag up with goop!
    (And another factor to add to the 'conspiracy' - its real hard to get ZF original or good aftermarket parts here unless you buy from dealers or have a few mates in the trade.)

    Torque converters can usually be fixed by cutting them in half & cleaning them out, put in a few new bushes & welding them up again - so I guess this supports your theory.

    Auto gearboxes are very clever engineering & manual boxes are quite primitive. Most autos have a fatal flaw, but these flaws are quite well known and repairs are not clouded in mystery (or expensive) like the ZF.

    For example there is a $1 bit in a Trimatic (604) that breaks - it's right inside and reqiures a semi stripdown and you would be silly not to also replace any worn items. But this only costs about $500 max to do.

    In Mercedes trans there is a regular fault in the 'B" cylinder seal. Annother cheap bit - & in most models you can do the fix from outside with the box in the car.
    Some one who doesn't "play secrets" is possibly the most helpful person you could have to help with parts.
    The other big help is a factory manual for the gearbox- to tell you about all the fixes and modifications that have been worked out, sequences for reassembly and anything that is critical.

    Farmerdave

  8. #8
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    Alan,

    On the back of my thread about the zf4hp22s I have since found out there are only really two or three things that go wrong with them I have a thread from a BMW board that has a very intersting illustrated guide on a few things that can be done, I will find them and post them up, they could be all very similar in their failures

    Tom

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