205 GTi cold starting problem
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  1. #1
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Default 205 GTi cold starting problem

    My 205 GTi has recently decided that it doesn't want to idle properly when cold. It starts fine but then sometimes the revs seem to drop and then, when pressing on the accelerator the motor doesn't respond but just seems to stutter a bit and eventually picks up revs again. It seems that if I let the revs drop below 1500 rpm it wants to stall until it warms up, then it's fine. Also, if I let it stall, or switch it off when it's stuttering, it is very difficult to get started again.
    What could be causing this? Thanks for your help

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    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    I think it sounds like your SAD (suplementry air device) valve is playing up. Basically, when the car is cold the valve is open (because of the tempreature) and it lets air past the AFM (air flow Meter) and is like an auto choke kind of thing. One the temp in the engine bay warms up the valve will eventually shut and it should run fine. Check that all the little hoses coming from and around the AFM are connected.
    If any of what i have said is right then it should be an easy fix.

    Anyone shed some more light on the subject,,

    Cam
    98 Xantia CT
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    92 405 Mi16
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Go to

    www.205gtidrivers.com
    Then go to the Articles section
    hen scroll down to Engine General and its the third article down. SAD etc

    It had diagrams and all that.

    Cam
    98 Xantia CT
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    92 405 Mi16
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  4. #4
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Thanks for your help
    I've had a quick look for the SAD but can't seem to locate it. I think I have now, however discovered what the blanked off bit of hose coming from the right angle hose between the AFM and throttle body is for... I think it's meant to run to the SAD I wasn't too worried about this hose before as the car was running OK.
    Is the SAD hidden under the dizzy, or can it be seen without pulling half the inlet piping out? I'll have a better look tomorrow to see if I can find it. If I don't have one, how much for a new one, and where's a good (read: reasonably priced) place to buy one from?
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Your car should have one as i dont think they just fall off. Try looking under the pipe with the bend going into the throttle bodie. It should be under there and have a pipe going into it and then out. Make sure all your pipes are connected up to it. Otherwise try Auto France in Artarmon. Not sure he will stock them though. Did you have a look at the lonk as there is pictures and descriptions there aswell. You should be able to see if you have one or not.

    Regards Cam
    98 Xantia CT
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
    92 405 Mi16
    87 205 GTi Race Car
    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR
    Thanks for your help
    I've had a quick look for the SAD but can't seem to locate it. I think I have now, however discovered what the blanked off bit of hose coming from the right angle hose between the AFM and throttle body is for... I think it's meant to run to the SAD I wasn't too worried about this hose before as the car was running OK.
    Is the SAD hidden under the dizzy, or can it be seen without pulling half the inlet piping out? I'll have a better look tomorrow to see if I can find it. If I don't have one, how much for a new one, and where's a good (read: reasonably priced) place to buy one from?
    I've got a S/H one available.
    Graham

  7. #7
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    OK, I've had a more thorough look for it by removing the inlet piping and AFM, but still had no luck locating it. I've looked at the info on the 205gti drivers forum but there doesn't seem to be anything in my engine bay resembling the SAD. I did however find another small hose running from under the throttle body just after the butterfly that isn't attached to anything.
    I'm guessing that a previous owner has removed the SAD not knowing what it was for
    I can't see any free wires for the heating element in the SAD and don't know where it should be mounted, so I guess I'll have to take my car to a pug mechanic
    Or can anyone else shed some more light on the subject?
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  8. #8
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    I was just thinking if my car was running OK before, without the SAD, but it now seems to have a problem, then is the problem the lack of SAD or is there also something else wrong?
    My car hasn't run too well when started from cold in the past (but acceptably well for me), but the problem seems much worse now than it used to be.
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    your looking in the wrong spot. as cam mentioned it is below the throttle body which is the thing just before the inlet manifold .
    the accelerator cable is attatched to the throttle body as well.
    the loose thin rubber pipe under the throttle body is meant to be connected to the vaccuum advance on the dizzy .
    if it is disconnected,chances are the vaccuum advance on the dizzy is not workiong.mine is the same.
    the L shaped air hose from the air filter to afm has a block off cap on as standard.
    this pipe is used on other models and makes and is utilisied on those models.
    its not needed on the 205 so they cap it off.
    -BAZZ

  10. #10
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply Bazz,
    there is already one hose running from under the throttle body to the vacuum advance on my dizzy but I found a second similar hose that isn't connected to anything.
    I just had another look and can't find the SAD under my throttle body either...
    The blocked off hose I mentioned earlier is on the 90 deg. bend between the throttle body and AFM. I know about the other blocked off hose between the air filter and AFM that is used on series 3 205 GTis
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  11. #11
    al
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    I would imagine that you will have to remove the air intake to access it...

    I would take a photo of it, but i can't find the digital camera. Anyway, if you look under the distributor cap you will see a "thing" with a hose coming out each side. (one going to the bottom corner of the block) The SAD is attached to the bottom of this with two 11mm bolts, and it also has a hose coming out each side.

    It looks like this



    If you still can't find it, try and follow the hose that comes directly out of the bottom of the inlet. I would imagine that it would be there, but it is hidden away a bit.
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  12. #12
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Thanks Al,
    I think I've located the SAD now. It would appear to be below the dizzy, bolted underneath something with hoses coming out of it that would appear to be where the heater hoses run from the side of the block to the firewall. It certainly is pretty well buried down there
    If this is the SAD, this now raises another question . Where does the small diameter hose i found running from under the throttle body go?
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  13. #13
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    I ended up having to take the battery out as well so that I could see it, plus, to make it a bit more confusing, it's facing the other way to that diagram
    I've attached a pic of the 90 deg. pipe running from the AFM to the throttle body. Arrow 1 is pointing to where the hose runs from to the SAD. Arrow 2 is pointing to the bit that was blocked off. Can anyone tell me what is supposed to be connected here? Or, is it something that's only supposed to be used on series 3 GTis?
    I've also attached another pic showing the small hose I discovered connected at one end underneath the throttle body but free at the other end. You can see the hose running back up behind itself under the throttle body. Does anyone know where this is supposed to go?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 205 GTi cold starting problem-p1030065-1-.jpg   205 GTi cold starting problem-p1030069-1-.jpg  
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  14. #14
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Bump...

    So does anyone know where the other end of this hose goes? I've plugged it temporarily and the car seems to run a bit better but I think I'm going to have to replace the SAD.
    The first time I drove my car after replacing the inlet pipes and battery it started and ran perfectly but the problem seems to have returned
    Do I have another air leak at the other end where this hose is supposed to go? Does anybody know where it might go?
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    ok i think what your talking about has something to do with the emission control. i have the hose coming out #2 in your pics to this "thing" (i'll try n get a pic), which has a hose coming off it chopped and plugged facing down. i also found under the LHS guard (infront of the tyre) a cylindrical cannister that looks to be a filter of some sort by the contents with two hoses coming off it also chopped and the way the hoses were sitting looked like they were related to the "thing". they werent connected tho. im still looking into this. the cannister also might have something to do with the a/c, not sure cause my a/c wasnt working and a mess so i removed it.
    Puggy.

  16. #16
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply
    The cylindrical canister under the LHS guard is hooked up in my car so that isn't where the hose is supposed to go.
    Your description relating to arrow #2 in the first pic sounds similar to the way that was blocked in my car, but where does the hose in pic 2 go?
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

  17. #17
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    i'll try and get a pic of this "thing". it looks like a one-way valve of some sort. i would like to know please where the cannister is connected to and if possible a pic? ty
    Puggy.

  18. #18
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    Sure, I'll try and figure out where the cannister connects to and get some pics
    2005 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
    1989 205 Gti - Sold


    "This year, I invested in pumpkins. They've been going up the whole month of October and I got a feeling they're going to peak right around January. Then, bang! That's when I'll cash in." - Homer Simpson

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