Resurrecting batteries.
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  1. #1
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Default Resurrecting batteries.

    I've got a couple of batteries that have died from lack of use. Both almost new, but in cars either parked up or waiting to be sold.
    The point is that it seems with modern batteries, if you leave an almost new one die a slow death, they just stay that way and never seem to come right, but I remember not so long ago there was some mob selling the rights to battery revival businesses which according to the prospectus could earn the operator mega bucks for only a few hours work a week. I've no doubts they were a bit of a con, but they must have worked as I know a place up here used to sell "reconditioned" batteries with a 3 month warranty on them, so does anyone know what's involved?
    I am certain it's not using "Innox" (or whatever it's called) as I have only ever used it three times and in every case the battery totally carked it in no time.
    I'm aware that if you replace the acid, it has to be water first and acid over it to avoid explosions and the principle of Innox is to settle all the oxidisation and crap to the bottom of the battery so that it doesn't short out the plates, but has anyone any clues on how it's done?
    I'm sure I'm not the only one interested.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i'll have a chat to the Exide rep today for you and get back to you

    put a meter over them and see what's left in them

    if they are 10V or less then they are too far gone generally but i'll get more info for you
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The reason I'm a bit interested in why that should be is that I had a new Bosch that wouldn't have done more than 100 klms when I had to leave the car unused and unbeknowns to me, my CD player apparently draws power even when off (Sony have a reputation for it I've since discovered) and by the time I got back to it, it was way down. Recharged, it would only last one day, two at the most and a check on it revealed at best 11.5 volts. We've since had two others, one in a CX being restored and the other in a Fraud we're trying to sell; both also new and both gone flat and won't recharge. Bloody ridiculous. Years ago, you could take the old batteries and I've seen them so flat that in one instance we had a car cleaner accidentally charge one back to front which gave some weird symptoms, but whilst it wasn't recommended practice, you could get away with it a few times even with a bit of age on them. This new crap seems to work when new, go flat and throw away.
    If people are making a living out of rejuvinating them, there's got to be a way of doing it without spending 10 Grand bying a dodgy business. I think it's just a case of knowing what they're using which for sure the trade would know, but whether they tell you is another story.


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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    If the cell voltage drops below 1.7V (10.2V total), an irreversable process called delsuphurisation occurs. Sorry, throw them in them bin. Wet cell batteries need to be kept at 13.1V, to keep them charged, yet avoid over charging.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Alan S]I've got a couple of batteries that have died from lack of use. Both almost new, but in cars either parked up or waiting to be sold.
    The point is that it seems with modern batteries, if you leave an almost new one die a slow death, they just stay that way and never seem to come right,


    Good trick I learnt from used car guys- antacid powder or baking powder.
    Stirs up all the gunk just like in your stomach. Teaspoon to each cell.
    Then give them solid slow charge. Costs almost nothing to try.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default Marine Batteries.

    You could try Marine Batteries, they have some pf the characteristics of a deepcycle battery but still have the capacity to be used as a starting battery. Flattening and recharging doesn't worry them so much.
    Bunnings used to sell dashtop solar cell battery trickle chargers. They could be handy for keeping the battery topped up in vehicles that don't get much use.
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    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default Radiator Sludge.

    [QUOTE=Westair
    Good trick I learnt from used car guys- antacid powder or baking powder.
    Stirs up all the gunk just like in your stomach. Teaspoon to each cell.
    Then give them solid slow charge. Costs almost nothing to try.[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like it is worth a try. Might have to bump the acid level up a little bit to compensate afterwards.

    Off topic but the mention of sludge reminded me of a time when I was trying to move a large log on a firetrail with the Hilux.
    Procedure involved rocking the vehicle/log back and forward. On the trip home Hilux started boiling its head off and exploding radiator hoses.
    Years of accumulated sludge in the bottom of the block had been stirred up and found its way into the radiator core which it blocked.
    Aftermarket strainers are available for fitting into the top radiator hose. Was always going to fit one of those hmm.

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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504
    You could try Marine Batteries, they have some pf the characteristics of a deepcycle battery but still have the capacity to be used as a starting battery. Flattening and recharging doesn't worry them so much
    but it dosen't matter what type they are, they're all FLAT at 10.5V, after which the irreversible occurs.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Peter,

    Is this due to them using some kind of synthetic in them these days as opposed to the old lead plates?
    Reason I ask is that once in the car yard, as I mentioned above, we had one go so flat the dopet cleaner stuck it on the charger a about face. When charged, we noticed that the more you ran the car the flatter the battery got, yet the lights would stay bright, so we sent it off to an auto sparky who found the problem, totally dead flattened the battery and then recharged it after which it stayed charged until it was sold.
    In a case like that, you'd reckon the battery would be well stuffed beyond redemption if the 10.2V was applicable then.


    Alan S
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Obviously a battery will return if flattened beyond 10.2V, but will never be as good as before. The longer it stays under 10.2V, the more damage will be done. As for synthetics in batteries, I'm not sure.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    wet cell 12V batteries are all 12.6 or there abouts straight off the shelf (6V are 6.2-6.3)

    peter is right though that once they hit 10V they are throw away

    you can however 1/2 drain them and put new acid in but if the plates are fallin apart then they aren't going work

    i haven't seen the rep yet today

    i'll give him a call later
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    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    hmm... this discussion has me wondering...

    I've got a brand new battery in my garage. I used it to get home when I was stranded without a working alternator 300km away from home. I used to to drive for about 3 hours and it's now flat. I have no need for it straight away cause my other older battery was still fine. Should I be storing this new battery charged or flat ? I have a feeling I could be damaging it by storing it flat....
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    It has to be greater than 10.2V at all times! Preferably 13.1V if you want it "on-call".

    '92 205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I'm about to find out if the brand new Exide Evolution I had in the R25 is ok - left it connected and parked the car for 6 months, and it is now predictably flat as a tack... Will be most miffed if its stuffed - onto the charger with fingers crossed.

    But had a standard Exide that was newish, but COMPLETLY flat for a year. Took 2 days on a trickle charger to get it up again and it was fine for another two years. Although it may have gone 4 years more if it wasnt left so flat for so long....
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    Good trick I learnt from used car guys- antacid powder or baking powder.
    Stirs up all the gunk just like in your stomach. Teaspoon to each cell.
    Then give them solid slow charge. Costs almost nothing to try.[/QUOTE]

    Please explain: antacid powder - do you mean sodium bicrbonate?; baking powder is sodium bicrbonate and tataric acid. Do both do the same job?
    JoBo

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    It has to be greater than 10.2V at all times! Preferably 13.1V if you want it "on-call".

    you have to keep them on charge to get them to stay at 13.1V

    they all settle at 12.6V on the shelf and even when new/unused they will only drop to around 12.2V over a 6 month period

    deep cycles will retain higher voltages than normal wet cell batteries

    and what ever you do do not store them on the concrete floor

    always puts them on some wood
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    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I'm about to find out if the brand new Exide Evolution I had in the R25 is ok - left it connected and parked the car for 6 months, and it is now predictably flat as a tack... Will be most miffed if its stuffed - onto the charger with fingers crossed.

    But had a standard Exide that was newish, but COMPLETLY flat for a year. Took 2 days on a trickle charger to get it up again and it was fine for another two years. Although it may have gone 4 years more if it wasnt left so flat for so long....

    evolutions have a 24month warranty

    if it's dead then take it back under warranty if it is less than 24 months from day of purchase for another one

    exide advantage only have a 12 month warranty

    if yours is an evolution then it must be a 460 or 305 or maybe a din55/66

    i see hundreds of these every day
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I'm about to find out if the brand new Exide Evolution I had in the R25 is ok - left it connected and parked the car for 6 months, and it is now predictably flat as a tack... Will be most miffed if its stuffed - onto the charger with fingers crossed.

    But had a standard Exide that was newish, but COMPLETLY flat for a year. Took 2 days on a trickle charger to get it up again and it was fine for another two years. Although it may have gone 4 years more if it wasnt left so flat for so long....
    Little OT here,
    Haakon, I have had a couple of batteries for the R10 over the years while I have just had it in the garage. I have found Exide to be the pick of the bunch. I occasionally forget to charge them and they'll go flat, only the Exides are recoverable from my absent mindedness. Forget the s/cheep supercharge ones. The only supercharge they have is price, expensive because they aren't worth a pinch.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Evolution took a charge just fine. And the R25 started 3rd turn of the crank and idled perfectly after 7 months parked out the front.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    Little OT here,
    Haakon, I have had a couple of batteries for the R10 over the years while I have just had it in the garage. I have found Exide to be the pick of the bunch. I occasionally forget to charge them and they'll go flat, only the Exides are recoverable from my absent mindedness. Forget the s/cheep supercharge ones. The only supercharge they have is price, expensive because they aren't worth a pinch.

    beware the korean/indonesian batteries

    they are flooding the market and aren't worth a pinch

    stick to good aussie made batteries or US made ones if you want them to keep going

    if you are into 4WD'ing then spend the extra and get the glass matted batteries like an N70EX or EXL or N50EX or EXL

    these resist shock a lot better than normal wet cells do
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    in a Fraud we're trying to sell;Alan S
    You old conman Alan, at least you admit to trying to sell a fraud
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  22. #22
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    Default Batteries

    Over the years I have noticed that batteries seem to be just as expensive, but if not charged frequently when out of a car, they just don't last like they used to, and I always store them on a wooden platform.

    The exception is a truck battery I keep for starting a Wolseley 6/90, I have repeatedly charged it every few months and it seems to hold up quite well over long periods.

    The other Fuego batteries (exide mainly) are hard to recover if you allow them to go flat, have tried everything except the bicarbonate trick, I have an old 10amp charger that sometimes will jolt a battery back into service as long as it is not left on for long, otherwise it will boil the battery.

    Last year I finally decided to buy a $69 trickle charger, that is left hooked up to the battery all the time, although I do switch it for a few days to the truck battery now and then, seems to work o.k. so far and no "lost" batteries

    I have found the K mart exide batteries fair value as long as they are not left flat, and a few years ago used to buy the returns for $30 or $40 at a battery supply place - no gaurantee but in my experience these worked at least as well as a $98 battery from K Mart and a damn sight cheaper, unfortunately the battery place moved to the other side of town.

    I have a mate who exclusively buys his batteries from wreckers at $10 to $20 and if it dies in a short time he just takes it back and they give him another, I see that Pick-a-part also sell batteries at various prices, but haven't tried them myself.

    Years ago we would drain a batteries acid into a glass bowl, wash out the gunk using the garden hose and then after the acid settled return it to the battery with some new battery acid added and you would get a new lease of life - didn't work as well with modern batteries and probably highly illegal and damaging to the environment.

    Ken

  23. #23
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    k-mart, repco, bigW are all the same exide batteries

    white case ones are the cheap alternatives where as the black cases are the normal run

    out of the hundreds i deliver everyday i will only need to pick up around 2-4% as warranty returns

    so long as you don't let them get below 11V they will generally come back to life and 10V is death for them

    old age , vibrations and heat kills the normal wet cells though like in the case if my 306 that will eat them up and spit them out every 2 years

    if a car is left for a period of time then take the battery out of the car and store it away on some timber and do not leave it in the car

    also do not believe the maintenance free stickers on some of them, if you can remove the caps to check levels then do so as often as you can as they still vent and the levels still drop on these batteries and that leads to a quick death of them as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    You old conman Alan, at least you admit to trying to sell a fraud
    ...................but; with a capital "F" like Henry useta.

    Alan S
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Ranger's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=westair Good trick I learnt from used car guys- antacid powder or baking powder.
    Stirs up all the gunk just like in your stomach. Teaspoon to each cell.
    Then give them solid slow charge. Costs almost nothing to try.:[/QUOTE]

    I heard that you use epsom salts, one tablespoon in each cell, reason being its so busy holding its insides together it hasn`t time to lay down and die ! best not to let them get completely flat.very slow charge if they do.
    "The defendant is no gentleman, but that is neither here nor there. We find for the defendant, much as we dislike him." A.P. Herbert

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