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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Default Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick

    I've been noticing this ticking noise. Tappet noise precisely, on my 405 Mi16 (S1.5).

    Oil levels are exact. I've been using the stuff recommended on this forum. Oil filter is good.

    The sound comes and goes, but it's definitely tappets. What else could it be? Oil pump on the way out?
    Should I drink my last beer and shoot myself in the foot?


    Cheers
    pips

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    camshaft lobe wear?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    That wouldn't happen instantly though? Would it?

    Speaking of cams, you do that sort of thing don't you?

    pipsqeek
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

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  4. #4
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    CHECK THAT ALL YOUR SPARK PLUGS ARE TIGHT! See my thread on this...


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    yes, but I wasn't trying to rake up business. I recently rebuilt an engine that someone had fitted brand new lifters to. The cam lobes were worn however and thus the source of the noise. Another 16V owner on this forum also had new lifters fitted. His mechanic had misdiagnosed big end noise! So in went new lifters and off he went. Naturally he thought the problem had been fixed, so he gave it a flogging and destroyed the bottom end. Most of the 16V lifters I've seen are still serviceable, even after 200 000+ Km. You can pull them apart, clean out the junk, lap the tops and off you go!

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    I shall check the spark plugs this weekend, which I just replaced when I did the oil, filters, etc. I torqued them to spec.

    Thanks thus far.

    pipsqeek
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

    1990 405 Mi16

  7. #7
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    Oh well, doesn't look like it's the plugs. I can vouch, though, that it does sound like 'tappet' noise or cam wear. By the way, the injectors make a light ticking sound, but it's not intermittent, so I suppose it rules them out.

    Stuey


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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Yeah.... Definitely not the injectors. It's mechanical, and I first noticed it when stopped in a street, in front of a shop with glass windows. It was ticking like mad, so I shut the engine off.

    Let it settle for 5 mins, checks oil levels, water, air filter, and even had a quick squiz at the HT leads. Then started the car again, it was fine.

    Got home, and it was ticking like mad again, I haven't driven it since, but I've been flat chat with work.

    Cheers
    pips
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

    1990 405 Mi16

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    You'll probably find it's those hydraulic tappets. The inner piston I reckon sometimes must stick a bit, I've had it on & off with mine for years, so when I next do the cambelt, I'll pop them all out, strip, clean and burp and see how it goes. Mine does it at cold start and at a certain revs so I hold it on the accelerator just above that when I start it. After about a minute it's gone and when hot there's not a muff out of it.
    Pretty major job to do for what it is unless you're in there doing something else as the cambelt has to come off and the camshaft needs to come out to access it. 2 Cotton balls, one for each ear is a better solution at this stage IMHO.


    Alan S
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  10. #10
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    When I read the title I just knew this would be Mi16. Mine does it too but it's not really audible from inside the car. My engine's been rebuilt but not the cams and tappets etc, they're all on 125000 miles.
    405 MI16
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    Le lion va de la force la force!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Poo!

    I just did the timing belt, literally 2000km's ago.

    Last edited by pips; 12th October 2005 at 05:40 PM.
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

    1990 405 Mi16

  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I've tried all sorts of things over the years and all seem to work to an extent but nothing has totally removed it.
    Adding to what I previously posted, I have suspicions that the inner piston has a ball bearing inside it (a bit like a check valve) which in some cases may not seal and as a result the tappet will tap until it gets full of oil and it seats. I'm presently running 0W 40 oil in mine as I was interested in seeing if that stopped it but as I said, it taps for the first few minutes, then nothing. When hot with this grade of oil in it, I can honestly say it sounds the quietest of any 16V engine I think I've ever heard but when cold it sometimes gets a bit scarey.
    Try doing as I do and just slightly raise the revs until it goes out of it and see if like mine 1200 - 1500 will lose it and as soon as it gets hot, it's totally gone. After all, if it's only carrying on for the first 2 minutes every day, is it worth getting ulcers over? When the next cambelt or any similar jobs crop up and you have to be in there, worry about it then; s I say, mine's done it for years and everything's still there as it was, so don't let it become a phobia.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    jgp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I've tried all sorts of things over the years and all seem to work to an extent but nothing has totally removed it.
    Adding to what I previously posted, I have suspicions that the inner piston has a ball bearing inside it (a bit like a check valve) which in some cases may not seal and as a result the tappet will tap until it gets full of oil and it seats. I'm presently running 0W 40 oil in mine as I was interested in seeing if that stopped it but as I said, it taps for the first few minutes, then nothing. When hot with this grade of oil in it, I can honestly say it sounds the quietest of any 16V engine I think I've ever heard but when cold it sometimes gets a bit scarey.
    Try doing as I do and just slightly raise the revs until it goes out of it and see if like mine 1200 - 1500 will lose it and as soon as it gets hot, it's totally gone. After all, if it's only carrying on for the first 2 minutes every day, is it worth getting ulcers over? When the next cambelt or any similar jobs crop up and you have to be in there, worry about it then; s I say, mine's done it for years and everything's still there as it was, so don't let it become a phobia.


    Alan S
    i've noticed a tapping noise when in 1st and 2nd gear till about 2500 rpm under load say up a hill, but not in any other gear. sounds almost like a leaking exhaust gasket. car runs well doesn't miss a beat. driven once a week so i crank it over with the fuel pump fuse out till the oil pressure gets up a bit to avoid that dry rattle on startup. run penrite 15w 60 no problems.
    90 405 MI16
    96 406 ST

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Your noise sounds very much like either a loose spark plug or a cracked manifold or a leak in the exhaust manifold gasket.
    I'd start by checking the plugs if I were you as these engines have a bit of a habit oftrying to put one through the bonnet.

    See here: Another Mi16 blows a plug out!


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  15. #15
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    An indicator that it's a cracked manifold is if it's louder when cold - the cracks tend to close up more when hot.

    Hey Pips, the title of this thread reminds me of Peter Sellers and the Pink Panther movies which I watched again on the weekend, <Tick Tick Tick> "Excuse me sir, is that a berm under your bonnet...".

    Stuey


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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    An indicator that it's a cracked manifold is if it's louder when cold - the cracks tend to close up more when hot.

    Hey Pips, the title of this thread reminds me of Peter Sellers and the Pink Panther movies which I watched again on the weekend, <Tick Tick Tick> "Excuse me sir, is that a berm under your bonnet...".

    Stuey
    or does your derg bite?
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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! KRISKARRERA's Avatar
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    The "lip" where the 8 tubes go into 1 on the Mi16 xorst manifold is know to crack.
    405 MI16
    170bhp
    Le lion va de la force la force!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I've tried all sorts of things over the years and all seem to work to an extent but nothing has totally removed it.
    Adding to what I previously posted, I have suspicions that the inner piston has a ball bearing inside it (a bit like a check valve) which in some cases may not seal and as a result the tappet will tap until it gets full of oil and it seats. I'm presently running 0W 40 oil in mine as I was interested in seeing if that stopped it but as I said, it taps for the first few minutes, then nothing. When hot with this grade of oil in it, I can honestly say it sounds the quietest of any 16V engine I think I've ever heard but when cold it sometimes gets a bit scarey.
    Try doing as I do and just slightly raise the revs until it goes out of it and see if like mine 1200 - 1500 will lose it and as soon as it gets hot, it's totally gone. After all, if it's only carrying on for the first 2 minutes every day, is it worth getting ulcers over? When the next cambelt or any similar jobs crop up and you have to be in there, worry about it then; s I say, mine's done it for years and everything's still there as it was, so don't let it become a phobia.

    Alan S
    Alan,

    I would be keen to know how this goes, I have a 306 which has a shocking tappet noise until warm, using penrite atm 15W60 from memory, if the 0W40 does the trick I will be dropping it asap

    Thanks
    Tom

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcns
    penrite atm 15W60 from
    That would be a bit thick I would have thought - not good for hydraulic tappets...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    FWIW, the worst case of the tappety taps I ever heard was in an Mi16 we're presently redoing at home. it was put in as a measure to try to reduce oil consumption caused by faulty fitted valve stem seals.
    <y policy with these engines has always been to go as light a grade oil as I could and keep it clean, based on what my sons engine was like when we stripped it. long interval oil changes and treacle for lubrication certainly didn't do it any favours, but dropping back now fronm the thick stuff might have to be done in stages such as first change 10W40 then possibly 5W40 If you can get Elf Excellum (5W40 at a reasonable price, I'd be game almost to go with that as it is a very high grade product.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    So, from what I gather, I might just go ahead and change the oil with some Penrite 0W40, change the filter again, and see how I go.

    I have also noticed that there is some belt slap from the timing belt being changed, it comes and goes. I know this is a common problem, but should I take it back to Paul at Gladesville Prestige over this, or is it nothing major to worry about either?

    Cheers
    pips
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

    1990 405 Mi16

  22. #22
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    New one on me it being common. slapping belts are loose belts; get it seen to.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  23. #23
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    It's fairly common that they 'zissss' against the cover from it slightly warping, but I've never heard of the slapping.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    It's fairly common that they 'zissss' against the cover from it slightly warping, but I've never heard of the slapping.
    So time for a change of belt when you start hearing that happen or is it a tensioner thing, never done a timing belt on a pug

    Tom

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! KRISKARRERA's Avatar
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    Mine started slapping after my main dealer changed my belt - nearly destroyed the engine.
    405 MI16
    170bhp
    Le lion va de la force la force!

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