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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! nos205gti's Avatar
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    Icon13 Pug 206 Gti 180 Attention

    l have 2005 model gti 180 l bought this car april 05,l had 205gti then l ve sold it.that car was LEGEND.GTI180 l ve done 7000 kms today car is not 130 kw l dont think so.for me not enough power.interior is good,but car is very noisy on road...bcoz,very low profile tyres and very bad tyres. if you can ask about the price of that tyres of course very expencive,$299 at bob jane t marts.l ve paid this $35500 on road but no spare tyres go have look how big is back muffler hey... pug head office put one little spare tyre .(l really want to drive to guilford but l m scare no spare tyre) l cant drive too far way.with this car.my car engine works low revs idol is very low,turn on a/c then very bad shake...service said thats normal this car is high performance engine (B..S..T) my 205 gti NOS kit on it never like that problem l ve done my service to myself l m 33 yrs old l was 17 yrs old l start drive my dad 404 then l m still driving pug. l had 106gti 97 mod aswell at europe..but l m sorry evryone l dont like 180gti no room,no enough power,noisy engine and tyres,no spare tyres only one thing was good try to drive ESP button off then you will see the loosing control of the car but power is not bad..sorry guys l ve done 7000 kms with this car. this car TEST DRIVE is 10/6 l m very sooryy...l ill selling my car if anyone interest just make me offer...sam

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    Fellow Frogger! Kyle's Avatar
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    If you don't like it why not trade it in on something more to your liking?

  3. #3
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    The power delivery of 180 is very different to the 205... much more torque down low on the 205, but the 180 has more up high. The 180 has a better power to weight ratio, but with the peak torque being further up the rev range to the 205, I imagine it feels less powerful in normal and even spirited driving.

    In today's modern cars that have to meet safety and emmision standards, this is the cold hard facts of the modern naturally aspirated engine. I doubt there's much you could trade it in on in the NA performance market... if a 180 feels weak down low, I doubt a RSC would feel THAT much different... probably a bit better, but probably not enough to knock your socks off.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing... if you're after that NA grunt, perhaps a Golf R32 or 147 GTA would do it?
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    Sorry to hear all that Sam. Advertising the car in such a way doesnt attract many buyers (maybe few with $1 offers).


    I totally agree with you about the dissapointement in meeting the initial expectations (especially with all the hype, GTi180 yippie ); From my experience, I find it to be a smooth car for everyday commuting, but can feel sluggish, unless you start pushing it hard.

    And certainly at 7000km, the engine hasn't really 'opened up'. Some experience a totally different experience (or just get used to it) around the 10k-15k mark. Before that, it just feels tight, at accelerations (and you can sense it by trying to pick up in 4th at 40km/h) --sub 2krpm--.

    The rough idle isn't something new, but have changed oil/of since you got it? I did the 1st service at just under 1400k's, and that was a leap in terms of smoothness etc.

    And btw, the 205 GTi kicks ass no doubt about that but the GTi180 is just as good but much more compromised for everyday road use and refined.

    Let's face it afterall, very few cars/hot hatches with such packed features can be bought new for 35g's.

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nos205gti
    l have 2005 model gti 180 l bought this car april 05,l had 205gti then l ve sold it.that car was LEGEND.GTI180 l ve done 7000 kms today car is not 130 kw l dont think so.for me not enough power.interior is good,but car is very noisy on road...bcoz,very low profile tyres and very bad tyres. if you can ask about the price of that tyres of course very expencive,$299 at bob jane t marts.l ve paid this $35500 on road but no spare tyres go have look how big is back muffler hey... pug head office put one little spare tyre .(l really want to drive to guilford but l m scare no spare tyre) l cant drive too far way.with this car.my car engine works low revs idol is very low,turn on a/c then very bad shake...service said thats normal this car is high performance engine (B..S..T) my 205 gti NOS kit on it never like that problem l ve done my service to myself l m 33 yrs old l was 17 yrs old l start drive my dad 404 then l m still driving pug. l had 106gti 97 mod aswell at europe..but l m sorry evryone l dont like 180gti no room,no enough power,noisy engine and tyres,no spare tyres only one thing was good try to drive ESP button off then you will see the loosing control of the car but power is not bad..sorry guys l ve done 7000 kms with this car. this car TEST DRIVE is 10/6 l m very sooryy...l ill selling my car if anyone interest just make me offer...sam
    Some paragraphs would be nice.

    Doesnt have 130kw?

    Having owned a Mx5 (107kw), SRi (108kw) and Tx3 (101kw) the pug pulls much harder then then all of them. So i fail to see how you say it doesnt feel like 130kw, unless there is something wrong with the car.

    Car is noisy?

    It is a little loud when your opening up but by no way deafining, my mx5 was much louder. Try driving a ricer with vtec or VVTL then you'll know what noisy is when you got to rev its tits off to move.

    Low profile tyres are very bad?

    How so? That price you got quoted seems a little dear? Try Jax, ive been quoted cheaper.

    No spare tyre

    If you really want a spare buy a space saver tyre or use the pressurised consealer that comes with the pug, it will get you out of trouble until you get to a tyre place. One member on here managed to get away with a side wall blowout on the consealer.

    Bad shakes with aircon on?

    Please explain more, what rev range is the car idling at with the air con on. I dont get that, then again i dont really drive much with air con on anyway.

    No room?

    In what sense? are you 6 foot 8? Im just under 6 foot and i dont see a problem, plenty of boot space for that size car.

    For give if im wrong, but didnt you test drive the car before buying it? Whats changed from testdriving until now?
    Last edited by WRC180; 10th October 2005 at 01:53 PM.
    04' GTi 180

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    Fellow Frogger! nos205gti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackster
    Some paragraphs would be nice.

    Doesnt have 130kw?

    Having owned a Mx5 (107kw), SRi (108kw) and Tx3 (101kw) the pug pulls much harder then then all of them. So i fail how you say it doesnt feel like 130kw, unless there is something wrong with the car.

    Car is noisy?

    It is a little loud when your opening up but by no way deafining, my mx5 was much louder. Try driving a ricer with vtec or VVTL then you'll know what noisy is when you got to rev its tits off to move.

    Low profile tyres are very bad?

    How so? That price you got quoted seems a little dear? Try Jax, ive been quoted cheaper.

    No spare tyre

    If you really want a spare buy a space saver tyre or use the pressurised consealer that comes with the pug, it will get you out of trouble until you get to a tyre place. One member on here managed to get away with a side wall blowout on the consealer.

    Bad shakes with aircon on?

    Please explain more, what rev range is the car idling at with the air con on. I dont get that, then again i dont really drive much with air con on anyway.

    No room?

    In what sense? are you 6 foot 8? Im just under 6 foot and i dont see a problem, plenty of boot space for that size car.

    For give if im wrong, but didnt you test drive the car before buying it? Whats changed from testdriving until now?

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Pug4eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackster
    How so? That price you got quoted seems a little dear? Try Jax, ive been quoted cheaper.
    Exactly how much cheaper?

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Why did you buy it if you are so unhappy with it. Didn't you test drive a 180 first?
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug4eva
    Exactly how much cheaper?
    Pirelli P7000 205/40 ZR17

    Bob Jane $295-
    Australia's best tyres $285-
    Jax $265-
    04' GTi 180

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackster
    Pirelli P7000 205/40 ZR17

    Bob Jane $295-
    Australia's best tyres $285-
    Jax $265-
    Pays to shop around.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Why did you buy it if you are so unhappy with it. Didn't you test drive a 180 first?
    It sounds like I'm not the only person to initally like a car on a test drive, but then grow to dislike it as you learn more about the car.

    It takes me about 500kms of exploring how a car behaves before I can really evaluate it.

    Both my 306's were bought without test drives, and it feels strange to recall that I initially liked the 307's that I test drove.
    Last edited by brenno; 10th October 2005 at 02:16 PM.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    It sounds like I'm not the only person to initally like a car on a test drive, but then grow to dislike it as you learn more about the car.

    It takes me about 500kms of exploring how a car behaves before I can really evaluate it.
    A ten minute around the block drive is NOT a test drive. About the only thing you'll learn in that short period is whether you like the driving position and controls layout.
    Cheers Simon
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    A ten minute around the block drive is NOT a test drive. About the only thing you'll learn in that short period is whether you like the driving position and controls layout.
    As much as I've tried, none of the dealers I've asked will let me go for a 500km blat on the off chance I actually like it. Most dealers won't even let me go for a 10 minute drive by myself.

    I can easily see how one might be misled by a typical test drive.

  14. #14
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    As much as I've tried, none of the dealers I've asked will let me go for a 500km blat on the off chance I actually like it. Most dealers won't even let me go for a 10 minute drive by myself.
    Shave the beard, cover the tatts, remove all the visible body piercing, shoes not thongs and don't rock up in a Sandman Van ...

    I guess dealers have to make a snap assessment whether you're there to tyre kick or really buy a car, and it must be hard to tell sometimes. So it's understandable. But lengthy 2-3 hour test drives (or even over night) are possible..... Justin?

    I tend to find the cheaper the car, the less flexible they are (well OK, when they get expensive it's also the same). So trying to get test drive on your own with a Toyota dealer was difficult (as was Holden and Hyundai) , but Pug/Ren/Cit have been OK (to me, but not others I know), as have (sorry Ken) VW, Subaru and Volvo. Jag they didn't want you to even try it, Audi they wanted you to book a time and they'll bring it around to you (probably wanted to know what suburb you lived in). Never bothered with Ferrari, Lotus etc

    Though as always, you can't judge a book by it's cover ... man is THAT a cliche!!

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    As much as I've tried, none of the dealers I've asked will let me go for a 500km blat on the off chance I actually like it. Most dealers won't even let me go for a 10 minute drive by myself.

    I can easily see how one might be misled by a typical test drive.
    You are obviously talking to the wrong dealers. When the 180 was released I had no problem taking one of the very first in Qld for a decently long drive - even though the dealer knew I wasn't purchasing, afterall he had sold me Kermit. From memory it was about 50 odd ks. It all boils down to how good your relationship with the dealer is.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nos205gti
    l have 2005 model gti 180 l bought this car april 05,l had 205gti then l ve sold it.that car was LEGEND.GTI180 l ve done 7000 kms today car is not 130 kw l dont think so.for me not enough power.interior is good,but car is very noisy on road...bcoz,very low profile tyres and very bad tyres. if you can ask about the price of that tyres of course very expencive,$299 at bob jane t marts.l ve paid this $35500 on road but no spare tyres go have look how big is back muffler hey... pug head office put one little spare tyre .(l really want to drive to guilford but l m scare no spare tyre) l cant drive too far way.with this car.my car engine works low revs idol is very low,turn on a/c then very bad shake...service said thats normal this car is high performance engine (B..S..T) my 205 gti NOS kit on it never like that problem l ve done my service to myself l m 33 yrs old l was 17 yrs old l start drive my dad 404 then l m still driving pug. l had 106gti 97 mod aswell at europe..but l m sorry evryone l dont like 180gti no room,no enough power,noisy engine and tyres,no spare tyres only one thing was good try to drive ESP button off then you will see the loosing control of the car but power is not bad..sorry guys l ve done 7000 kms with this car. this car TEST DRIVE is 10/6 l m very sooryy...l ill selling my car if anyone interest just make me offer...sam

    Sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the car.

    I don't quite understand your feelings:

    GTI180 l ve done 7000 kms today car is not 130 kw l dont think so.for me not enough power
    I hate to tell you this, but the 180 is 130 Kw, and how is it not enough power for you? Getting to 100kmph in 7.3 seconds isn't enough? It sounds to me like you are not winning the traffic light drags. The 180 is not designed for this.


    car is very noisy on road...bcoz,very low profile tyres and very bad tyres. if you can ask about the price of that tyres of course very expencive,$299 at bob jane t marts.
    Put cheaper tyres on it. I personally don't understand this false economy.. Tyres are the only thing keeping you on the road.. Buy better tyres for more fun and handling... Also, I have driven 13000km in my 180, yet to experience annoying road noise.

    Once again sorry you don't like the car, however, from your post, it seems you purchased the wrong type of car. A 180 will kill a 205 GTi, no worries...
    Clint

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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    Shave the beard, cover the tatts, remove all the visible body piercing, shoes not thongs and don't rock up in a Sandman Van ...

    I guess dealers have to make a snap assessment whether you're there to tyre kick or really buy a car, and it must be hard to tell sometimes. So it's understandable. But lengthy 2-3 hour test drives (or even over night) are possible..... Justin?

    I tend to find the cheaper the car, the less flexible they are (well OK, when they get expensive it's also the same). So trying to get test drive on your own with a Toyota dealer was difficult (as was Holden and Hyundai) , but Pug/Ren/Cit have been OK (to me, but not others I know), as have (sorry Ken) VW, Subaru and Volvo. Jag they didn't want you to even try it, Audi they wanted you to book a time and they'll bring it around to you (probably wanted to know what suburb you lived in). Never bothered with Ferrari, Lotus etc

    Though as always, you can't judge a book by it's cover ... man is THAT a cliche!!

    - xTc -
    It really shits me when you go to a car showroom in your everyday clothes and not get taken seriously.
    i didnt know you need a qualification in fashion to buy a new car.
    i swear when i buy a new car ill dress as down as possible and then rub it in the faces of the other salesmen when i give a $100 tip to the person selling it to me.
    man dont these guys know that old money dresses down and new money shows it off.
    but i suppose thats the conditionning that taught to. them-BAZZ

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    sounds like he needs a strap down willunga hill ... ps Adelaide boys we need to do this again ... to re-inspire his love for small cars that can handle. Man my car [Citroen Xsara] is less powerful and wobbly bobbly compared to you fellas with GTi's and even i love driving it.

    hahah i had to test drive a VTR when i bought my VTS. Rather dissappointed, but when re-assured that the VTS would be better i couldnt stop rubbing my hands together.

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  19. #19
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    a. performance and comfort are two extremes, you shouldn't expect a car to be quiet and fast, there aren't any. ever heard of an Avalon that goes fast ?
    b. I don't understand the whinging about bad performance, noisy car...etc, even 10mins around the block test drive they should be noted easy
    c. the 206 engine is good for performance but is not the smoothest, there's a vcold patch for the GTI138 to stop the vibration, so check if there's one available for the GTI180.
    d. tyres, low profile = more grip/more noise/more bumps = more $$$
    e. I don't understand the power bit, either you change gears on every 2000rpm or you bought a 206XR...if you loose control on ESP, maybe you should evaluate what you're trying to do on the road
    f. spares, do you see any porsches or ferraris have spares ??
    g. if you hate it so much, maybe you need to swap for another car instead...
    Last edited by J206GTI; 10th October 2005 at 08:51 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    if a 180 feels weak down low, I doubt a RSC would feel THAT much different... probably a bit better, but probably not enough to knock your socks off.
    The RSC feels more torquey down low if you ask me - that thing just has a really fun engine if you ask me, moves well at all rev ranges.

    The thing about the 180 is the tall first gear really exaggerates any notion that the engine is really top end biased - it's not really that bad at low revs.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackster
    Some paragraphs would be nice.
    Absolutely, but there are certainly others on AF that could do with proper paragraphs. I appreciate good formatting in a post, it really makes it easier to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    As much as I've tried, none of the dealers I've asked will let me go for a 500km blat on the off chance I actually like it. Most dealers won't even let me go for a 10 minute drive by myself.

    I can easily see how one might be misled by a typical test drive.
    Whilst, I wouldn't say I'd need 500km, I can see where you're coming from.

    For me, there are three real stages of test drive.

    1. The dealer's 10 minute test loop.
    2. The dealer gives you the keys for 30mins-a few hours
    3. The dealer gives you the car for a few days.
    (4 - they give you the car on a test track )

    Most reasonable dealers will get to stage 2, which is quite useful. You can take the car home, to work, just do your normal driving - very good to see if it fits in your day to day lifestyle. Small annoying things can pop up - even things which may not be initially apparent - how easily does it fit in the garage, is its turning circle a problem, etc. But there is one flaw - you don't quite have enough time to see how the car when you take the car out for a weekend drive in the hills.

    Stage 3 - you have the car for a weekend, half a week, etc - you can do all of Stage 2, plus you can take the car out on your favourite roads out in the hills, etc - get a feel for how the car goes in those occasional situations where you like to go for a fun drive in the countryside.

    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    I guess dealers have to make a snap assessment whether you're there to tyre kick or really buy a car, and it must be hard to tell sometimes. So it's understandable. But lengthy 2-3 hour test drives (or even over night) are possible..... Justin?
    Very easy, admittedly depending on the marque - if you are after a premium vehicle, not a problem.

    We've had cars for 4 days before, weekends, etc. The good dealers are prepared to do that.

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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts rustymunga's Avatar
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    Learn to drive, learn to spell and learn some decent grammar. Sorry for the bluntness of my post.

    And now to back up my statement.

    I ask, HOW, can you be disappointed with a $35,000 hot hatch??? Did you honestly go into this deal and think you were getting a drag machine? A machine to annihilate the quater mile? A skyline, wrx, evo, ss, gto muncher? This is what we call a hot hatch friend. Note the hot and the hatch stemming two different meanings. One term is to accommodate the every day life of me and you, to do the shopping, to drive to a movie, to carry things. The other (being hot) facilitates the spontaneous urge one may get to go for a "spirited drive", from what I have heard (and don't get me wrong, being on this forum I have met a large community of 180 owners) the car handles both fascists just fine.

    I would expect the mere dimwit to buy such a car to expect BIG STRAIGHT LINE KICKS. This car is for both, and I say again, the everyday life of me and you and the spontaneous need for speed... around bends, with a pretty zippy 0-100.

    I am 17 and am on my P's and I await the arrival of my dream car. I don't like a cry from someone. Not before I get my hands on it.

    I don't know what your expectations of the 180 were, but obviously they were in the refrigerator when you put the cash down to purchase your GTi 180.

    I say "learn to drive" because I look at your post and it reminds me of when I was to be taken for a test drive by a little blonde haired woman (was not allowed to take car for a test drive for the same reason mentioned by others) . I defiantly am not saying that women are bad drivers, I am not saying that they can not drive smoothly and passionately on a open road, yet this one said "well, its got a great amount of power", while saying this she selected gear two when rev limiter showed that gear one had reached a whopping 2500rpm. Planting her foot flat to the floor we rocketed up a HILL at 20kmph, now thats power Are you driving the car to its full capacitation of zippywippy.

    Yet there seems to be a contradiction as you have owned previous sporty pugs and as one who has had such Peugeots as yours would most probably know how to drive. I don't know.

    I really don't know, to be frank, I don't know what your on about,
    go have look how big is back muffler
    ????? WHAT THE? The exhausts sure are larger than normal, however don't you think it adds a nice sporty touch? I guess people have different perceptions. Didn't you realise the obnoxiously large muffler before paying for the car?

    If your so into hatches, do as GTi 124 said and grab a Alfa Romeo GTA or a Golf R32, maybe even a Audi S4.

    As for the spelling and grammar... well maybe you can't be bothered on the internet. oh and its expensive, not expencive

    Any way, this is just how I see things, not here to antagonise, would rather not hear this kind of thing before I buy the pug, but who am I to say that, free world, free forum.

    Good Luck mate...

    P.S. Tip of the day, Not a very valid way to sell your car. I wouldn't write that on the sale sheet

  22. #22
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashvsaod
    A 180 will kill a 205 GTi, no worries...
    Where is lucien?

    And is this killing carried out sideways by any chance? (Bloody oil on the road...)
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  23. #23
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    The RSC feels more torquey down low if you ask me - that thing just has a really fun engine if you ask me, moves well at all rev ranges.

    The thing about the 180 is the tall first gear really exaggerates any notion that the engine is really top end biased - it's not really that bad at low revs.
    Which is why I said "THAT much better". The RSC and J4RS engines both feel stronger down low, but there's very little in it... there's a difference, just not worth jumping ship over, IMO.
    - Lincoln

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  24. #24
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Enruoblem
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    2,098

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    some of you have crucified the bloke!

    nos205gti has obviously stated that his gti180 has not lived up to his expectations re what he expects from a "high end" hot hatch.

    ive got a difference of opinion in regards to the gti180 and think its great package... and for clint's comment re gti180 killing a 205gti?! pfft! the 205gtigangbangcrew would run rings around your gti180 all day, every day (and you know it too! ) but hey thats already been discussed in a million previous threads, so im not even gonna go there!

    ive been fortunate enough to be smitten with all my car purchases, nonetheless i totally understand others who state that, after owning a particular car for an amount of time, incompatibilty is the only conclusion they can draw.

    he's obviously not happy with quite a few things about the gti180 and has justified them in the most simple terms_as petty as they may sound to some_but hes owned it for 7000 kays, now. current 206 owners may disagree with him.

    he doesnt write about going flat stick at the lights, just merely power delivery. it may be because he prefers/is used to the low end snatch-and-shunt torque power delivery of his previous 205/106 gti, as opposed to the much talked of high end scream of the gti180! but hey i still think the gti180s got an awesomely flexible engine. but obviously nos205gti, disagrees.

    it seems hes also used to the 205gtis "rawness", as opposed to the gti180s "finesse" or refinement, if you may.

    as already recommended, you may want to test drive a RSC - its as close as one can get to the power delivery, and handling prowess of the 205gti. and as many reviews have reccounted, its the spiritual successor to the almighty 205gti!

    good luck with your next purchase. and yah, we appreciate good formatting!



    p.s. someone offer him a camel and a magic flying carpet, as a trade in! nos205gti might consider it!
    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    648

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pugjet
    some of you have crucified the bloke!

    nos205gti has obviously stated that his gti180 has not lived up to his expectations re what he expects from a "high end" hot hatch.

    ive got a difference of opinion in regards to the gti180 and think its great package... and for clint's comment re gti180 killing a 205gti?! pfft! the 205gtigangbangcrew would run rings around your gti180 all day, every day (and you know it too! ) but hey thats already been discussed in a million previous threads, so im not even gonna go there!

    ive been fortunate enough to be smitten with all my car purchases, nonetheless i totally understand others who state that, after owning a particular car for an amount of time, incompatibilty is the only conclusion they can draw.

    he's obviously not happy with quite a few things about the gti180 and has justified them in the most simple terms_as petty as they may sound to some_but hes owned it for 7000 kays, now. current 206 owners may disagree with him.

    he doesnt write about going flat stick at the lights, just merely power delivery. it may be because he prefers/is used to the low end snatch-and-shunt torque power delivery of his previous 205/106 gti, as opposed to the much talked of high end scream of the gti180! but hey i still think the gti180s got an awesomely flexible engine. but obviously nos205gti, disagrees.

    it seems hes also used to the 205gtis "rawness", as opposed to the gti180s "finesse" or refinement, if you may.

    as already recommended, you may want to test drive a RSC - its as close as one can get to the power delivery, and handling prowess of the 205gti. and as many reviews have reccounted, its the spiritual successor to the almighty 205gti!

    good luck with your next purchase. and yah, we appreciate good formatting!



    p.s. someone offer him a camel and a magic flying carpet, as a trade in! nos205gti might consider it!

    HAHAHA, you are so easy.
    Clint

    Obsidian Black 206 RC (2004)
    Ferodo DS2500 Racing Pads
    Green Cotton Dynatwist Induction Kit
    OZ Superturismo WRC 16" wheels

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