clutch (****)
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  1. #1
    al
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    Default clutch (****)

    With much thanks to Jarrod from here the new engine is now sitting in the car...

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    But, as i started reconnecting things something odd happened. I was playing with the clutch fork thingy trying to work out where to adjust it to, when it lost all its pressure. Now it just flaps around...

    I'm guessing this isn't good, and that something inside the box isn't right...

    Any ideas what happened?
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  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Almost sounds like the connection (Fork) to the thrust bearing has dropped off.
    Did you get an engine or an engine and gearbox? If just the engine, did you refit the clutch assembly from the other car or a new one or what?
    I've only ever been involved with one of these so I'm not really that au fait with them, but not to panic, it's not as bad as it first seems I'd say. Inside the bellhousing rather than inside the gearbox!!

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Almost sounds like the connection (Fork) to the thrust bearing has dropped off.
    Did you get an engine or an engine and gearbox? If just the engine, did you refit the clutch assembly from the other car or a new one or what?
    I've only ever been involved with one of these so I'm not really that au fait with them, but not to panic, it's not as bad as it first seems I'd say. Inside the bellhousing rather than inside the gearbox!!

    Alan S
    It was just the engine that i bought, but on sunday i (read jarrod) split the old engine and box, then put it on the new engine... Apparently the old clutch was ok, so that just went across to the new engine.

    As i have just spend a painful hour refitting the loom, do i have to undo it and pull it all out again...?
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'd presume you haven't fitted driveshafts and stuff yet? If not, you may be able to slip it across far enough to reconnect it all, but I'd be inclined to save it for daylight hours so you can take a good look. Be a bugger to pull it all apart and then find the bloody clutch cable had dropped out the pedal end or something stoopid like that hey?


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I'd presume you haven't fitted driveshafts and stuff yet? If not, you may be able to slip it across far enough to reconnect it all, but I'd be inclined to save it for daylight hours so you can take a good look. Be a bugger to pull it all apart and then find the bloody clutch cable had dropped out the pedal end or something stoopid like that hey?


    Alan S
    True... If it was the cable wouldn't the bit that sticks out of the box still have pressure though?

    I am so ******* pissed that this has happened... The end was almost in sight...

    I'm looking elsewhere and it says the box can be removed with the engine in the car. If it has to come out i reckon i'll have a crack at this cos i really don't want to take another step backwards..
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    al
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    Thank god i just found the problem... Turns out because the cable was still really loose the little rod thing that sits between the fork and arm fell out. I didn't notice because it stuck to the gearbox (it was v greasy) and didn't make any noise... I also didn't know where it went so i didn't notice it missing.

    I'm so pleased i think i may have a beer or three...
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Mate, mark time on this until Peter comes online in the morning as he's whipping them in & out much more than me these days and should be able to save you a motza of time if it has to be split. It could also be something simple on the outside like a shaft slipping in it's clamp or something equally as simple.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Kinda makes the last post redundent hey?

    Good on ya; always look for the simple things before you convince yourself it's the harder option.
    Enjoy the beers.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    al
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    Have to put the beers on ice cos something still isn't right... Even with the little rod back the fork still doesn't have any pressure.

    I have no idea what this could be...
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    al
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    Ok, i just whipped the box off... which i think is quite an achievement in itself.

    Anyway, i cannot believe the problem is as simple as it looks. It seems as though the little arms on the fork just fell out of the holders on the release thingy. Rectifying this took about ten seconds, but getting the box off was at least an hour...

    Anyway, hopefully it is sorted. How the hell the box goes back i don't know, but if it does it again i will ROLL ITS BURNING CARCASS OFF A CLIFF!
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    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Al

    Once you get it back on put the clutch cable straight on and adjust it up. It shouldn't come off again if there is tension on it. Without this tension there seems to be nothing holding it in place. (Can anyone else verify this?)

    Jarrod

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    al
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    This may be a stupid question, but how the f*** do it get it off the floor and reattach it? Somehow i don't think i have the strength in one hand to hold it there, and it is really hard to balance with the hoist or on jacks...
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    al
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    I finally worked out what caused things to go so wrong today.

    It turns out the fork is supposed to be attached to a circular plastic thing, which holds it on the ball the fork pivots on. In mine the fork had broken away from the plastic locator thing, which led to it now being held in place. (and falling off when the cable was being tightened)

    Hopefully the new fork i picked up this arvo will fix all this, and the box can stay on for more than a couple of days...

    I would suggest that people spend the $36 and replace the fork if theirs looks dodgy. Everyone told me it wasn't necessary, but this should eliminate any chance of the fork coming loose again.
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    al
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    Finally the box is back on... Again, much thanks to jarrod as i probably would have given up if i was alone.

    That was by far the worst job that i have come across so far... I now have a million scratches up my arms and across the chest, but it is back on!

    While i am sorting this is it worth doing the clutch cable?
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    If it's anything like a BX16V to do, go for it while you're in the mood and can get access.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    hey al...

    how far u from getting the thing going, Friday night??? pug meeting... how about it??

    mike
    1972 504 Ti

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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike L
    hey al...

    how far u from getting the thing going, Friday night??? pug meeting... how about it??

    mike
    You offering to tow me?

    Maybe next months if i have some luck. I also just found out that i am working friday night so it unlikely that i will make the meeting at all...
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    al
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    I might just turn this into a place for my general reassembly questions...

    Sorry to keep asking, but this is all still quite new and basically i am uncertain about lots of things.


    Anyway, i have had a really productive night, and the bay is looking more sorted. (even if the wiring is messy as hell)

    But, are the two bolts that hold the starter onto the block really necessary? Access to them is really bad, and it is attached to the box firmly by the three big bolts.


    Also, on the starter bit of the loom there are three wires- i have found where two of them go, but there is a blue wire that doesn't seem to have a home? Where should this be?
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al

    (even if the wiring is messy as hell)

    But, are the two bolts that hold the starter onto the block really necessary? Access to them is really bad, and it is attached to the box firmly by the three big bolts.


    Also, on the starter bit of the loom there are three wires- i have found where two of them go, but there is a blue wire that doesn't seem to have a home? Where should this be?
    To tidy up the wiring, go buy a couple of packs of split flexible conduit and cover the crappy wiring. I'm presently doing a restoration on a BX and have used heaps of it as it not only makes the car look like a tradesman has worked on it but it also protects the wiring and reduces the chance of the bloody lot shorting out on something if it's scuffing.
    It comes in varying sizes and I bought a roll yesterday for about $6 for 3 metres.

    "But, are the two bolts that hold the starter onto the block really necessary?"

    That's why they're there!! Imagine if that starter comes loose and fails to engage or worse still jams. What a job that would be when everything's back in place. Worse case scenario; it vibrates and splits the block.

    Persevere; they have to go back.

    I don't know what the blue wire is all about, trace it back or see what it reaches; possibly a sensor or switch I would suggest. This is where the masking tape and marking pen are handy when pulling apart.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! AxGT's Avatar
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    alan, where'd you get the split conduit from,
    I'm currently looking for some - JR Turks dont have anything like it

    Ken

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    Auto barn and Supa Cheap keep it up here. Any Auto Electrical shop.
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    al
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    Ok Alan. I will definately sort the wiring, but the starter bolts have me a little torn...

    While logic tells me they are there for a reason, what are the 11mm bolts going to do that the 16mm ones won't? What about a compromise - i'll put the top one in... (the other is seriously impossible)

    Incidentally, i think i had the first sucessful parts finding mission ever this morning... I needed to replace the intermediate bearing bolts, and i actually got them the same day! Apparently they are the last pair in the country, but i have them... To top it off the young guy at Regans was really helpful and didn't dismiss me immediately. (and he thought he would share a "secret", telling me about the Mi16 conversion)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxGT
    alan, where'd you get the split conduit from,
    I'm currently looking for some - JR Turks dont have anything like it

    Ken
    Any Jaycar electronics store. sells it - Chris
    ... ptui!

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    Fellow Frogger! AxGT's Avatar
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    Cheers guys,

    Just didn't know what to search for

    "loom tube"

    should have been obvious

  25. #25
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    al,

    If we're both talking about the same ones, the 16s go through the flange and the bellhousing and the 11s hold the back end of the starter to the block. They are there to stop the vibrations from fracturing the bellhousing and block.
    IIRC, they are pushed into the holes or slots at the rear prior to the starter being placed into position and then screwed by hand in until fingertight, the 16s spannered up and then the 11s tightened using either a flat ring or an openended spanner.
    If these are the ones, then you're takig a big risk not fitting them as I have no doubt Chr'is will agree as he has experience in Go Karts and motor bikes where vibration is your worst enemy.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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