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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Default 1800 motor

    Guys,

    I am contemplating swapping the Ti motor in my car to an 1800 to facilitate fitting an LPG system.

    The motor is currently in a wagon, import from Africa, only drove it once but was perky and pulled well.

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    I've not had any experience with this 1800 motor and would like your thoughts, concerns, tips etc. will do basic head and compression test, what am I looking for?

    Have only heard that these motors spin sweetly, have the overlap head? what does this mean.

    Pull the head and harden the valve seats? or run the valvemaster set-up?

    Any and all information appreciated.

    Thanks

    ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Guys,

    I am contemplating swapping the Ti motor in my car to an 1800 to facilitate fitting an LPG system.

    The motor is currently in a wagon, import from Africa, only drove it once but was perky and pulled well.

    I've not had any experience with this 1800 motor and would like your thoughts, concerns, tips etc. will do basic head and compression test, what am I looking for?

    Have only heard that these motors spin sweetly, have the overlap head? what does this mean.

    Pull the head and harden the valve seats? or run the valvemaster set-up?

    Any and all information appreciated.

    Thanks

    ed ge

    The overlap head may be something to do with the closed top block usually fitted to 404s and 504 1800s.
    Unfortunately you probably have the standard 2 litre block XM7 (with 84mm liners c/w 88mm for the 2 litre) being a South African import.
    So probably it would be better to use a 2 litre engine and get better torque, the 1800 is a pain in city traffic as the acceleration is notably inferior to the 2 litre, particularly on gas.
    Why not just place a gas mixer on the throttle body inlet and disable your injection system. This system works extremely well on a car I know of over here in Melbourne.
    You would need either hardened seats or Flashlube.
    The only good thing about the 1800 apart from the closed top block is that the single throat carby gives very good response at cruising speeds.
    Graham

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Thanks Graham,

    any chance that this could be fleshed out a little?

    Was any of it written down or photos taken?

    I think my mistake with term - overlap head, might have meant closed top block? what does this mean?

    Any chance to swap a few pm's with the guy who has this set up?

    Cheers ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Thanks Graham,

    any chance that this could be fleshed out a little?

    Was any of it written down or photos taken?

    I think my mistake with term - overlap head, might have meant closed top block? what does this mean?

    Any chance to swap a few pm's with the guy who has this set up?

    Cheers ed ge
    Closed top block means the liners are supported at the top, not held by the headgasket like the 2 litre.
    The guy who has done this is not on the internet.
    Best just to take the car to a LPG conversion place, you would just need a simple gas ring on the inlet pipe and a complex converter.
    I would wait 6 months or so, gas prices are reflecting prices before the rise in oil prices as gas prices are set by long term contracts so there may be a substantial rise. Couple that with the likelhood that petrol prices will drop and the increase in demand with people converting to gas and we may see the situation of a couple of years ago when gas was not economically viable
    Graham.

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    Have heard that gas excise is to be increased to make price closer to petrol.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    In my usual way I am intending to cobble this together myself at a more reasonable price, hence my need for extra info. Will fit as gas alone, with large tank 99ltr+, have the five speed already, and can't cope with approx 20 mpg around town.

    Thanks guys.

    Good thoughts Graham!

    ed ge

  7. #7
    Gus
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    In my usual way I am intending to cobble this together myself at a more reasonable price
    Edge, one of the things that always kept me away from LPG was the understanding that a licensed LPG mechanic needs to do all the work. Does anyone know anything about that? Can you DIY and then get a registered LPG place to check it out?


    Have heard that gas excise is to be increased to make price closer to petrol.
    I've heard this many times, but the last I heard (I think) was the increase has been reduced and will only be 18c/L (in 2008 I think.) It seems to me that by then petrol prices will be well over $2 and that this is not such a bad whack!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Edge, one of the things that always kept me away from LPG was the understanding that a licensed LPG mechanic needs to do all the work. Does anyone know anything about that? Can you DIY and then get a registered LPG place to check it out?




    I've heard this many times, but the last I heard (I think) was the increase has been reduced and will only be 18c/L (in 2008 I think.) It seems to me that by then petrol prices will be well over $2 and that this is not such a bad whack!
    Starting in 2011 and increasing each year for a while I think.
    Graham

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Gus that's the understanding I'm going with, get all parts assembled in one place, new where approapriate, second hand if ok, look around for fitter prepared to inspection and put stamp on, or work to their minumum requirements and they do the rest.

    Heard $1600 and 4 weeks wait at the moment, of course they are not going to give it away in this purple patch and I'm allergic to paying retail.

    Will see how it goes, you got any mates that run mech workshops?

    ed ge

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Graham ,

    suppossing I were to plumb the gas mixer to the throttle body, am I to presume that the gas mixer makes available tha correct gas/air for the situation which is delivered to the cyclinder by negative manifold pressue?
    Is it just that simple?

    Help.....anyone.......chance to exploit my ignorance.

    ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Graham ,

    suppossing I were to plumb the gas mixer to the throttle body, am I to presume that the gas mixer makes available tha correct gas/air for the situation which is delivered to the cyclinder by negative manifold pressue?
    Is it just that simple?

    Help.....anyone.......chance to exploit my ignorance.

    ed ge
    This is why you need a complex converter to go with the simple mixer.
    The complex converter is a standard LPG item and takes care of setting the correct mixture.
    Graham

  12. #12
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Edge,

    I think you've seen the gas setup on my Ti motor?

    The problem with the Ti motor is that the fuel injection pump cannot be disabled. If you use a solenoid to cut of the fuel supply to it, the pump will run dry and destroy itself in a very short time. That's why I've put a carby model timing chest on it, and blanked the fuel injection ports.
    The gas mixer on mine is a simple ring device, placed just before the throttle body. The throttle plate controls how much air/gas mixture goes into the engine, and the mixer puts the right amount of gas into the air as it passes by. It's not an ideal situation, because you are running pretty much the same fuel/air mixture at all times, there is no full throttle enrichment or anything. However, it keeps up with any carby 504 on the road, and with the mixture set up right, it will get about 28mpg around town, but not much difference on the highway (30mpg or so). Gas burns slower than petrol, and is better suited to long stroke, low revving engines. I think that the ZDJ 505 motors would be ideal, so that's what I'm upgrading the motor to. With a turbo, of course.

    The 1.8 litre motors kickass. They really do. My now 2 litre LPG Ti motor used to be a 1.8 litre XM, and it was champion. About 28mpg around town (petrol though), revved beautifully, and pulled just as hard as the 2 litre. That car was as quick in a straight line as a stock 12a S1 RX7, and I'll never forget the night on King William Street that I proved that, 3 times in a row!! The guy in the RX7 couldn't believe that the car was 35 years old and stock standard. When he asked what I'd done to it, I told him "new gearknob, makes all the difference". Hehehe.

    I still have my 1800, would love to put it in something again, perhaps with a turbo. Ultimately I would like to stand it up straight and put it in the 403.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default Gas 504

    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Guys,

    I am contemplating swapping the Ti motor in my car to an 1800 to facilitate fitting an LPG system.

    The motor is currently in a wagon, import from Africa, only drove it once but was perky and pulled well.

    I've not had any experience with this 1800 motor and would like your thoughts, concerns, tips etc. will do basic head and compression test, what am I looking for?

    Have only heard that these motors spin sweetly, have the overlap head? what does this mean.

    Pull the head and harden the valve seats? or run the valvemaster set-up?

    Any and all information appreciated.

    Thanks

    ed ge

    If you are prepared to go entirely gas the best way would be a gas research carby.

    Everybody who uses them seems to have complete success .

    It would be a POP to fit one to 1800 head , simply make a plate to fit the head where the existing manifold bolts.

    The 1800 engines seems more responsive at meduim high revs , and spiuns very well , but are not a torquey down low and thus are not as nice to drive in the City, expecially with TI diff !

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