Timing Advancement Resistor Mod
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  1. #1
    Tadpole the_gun18's Avatar
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    Default Timing Advancement Resistor Mod

    Hi guys,

    I was wondering if any of you know whether a 1985 505 GTi would have an IAT sensor as this is necessary to apply this modification? The link is below if any of you are interested in it. I emailed the seller and he said unless I have an IAT sensor I shouldnt buy the product.

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    So if the 1985 505 GTi has the IAT sensor could somebody please let me know it location.

    Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Chris

  2. #2
    Tadpole the_gun18's Avatar
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    Oh crap forgot to paste the link anyway here it is:

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Mate, with all due respects, buy a couple of Ice creams instead; that way you'll see a result.
    These work on the same principle as a piece of cardboard strapped to the rear fork of a pushbike. It seems to go faster becuase you want to believe it does.

    Ask this guy if he'll promise in writing to reimburse your dyno test on the car if you fit it and do a before and after test and it's no difference and don't get disappointed if you don't get a reply.
    You've got a decent car; learn to enjoy it or you'll end up financing someone into a lifestyle he has visions of becoming accustomed to.
    How do you dyno test bullshit?


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! tlampre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_gun18
    Hi guys,

    I was wondering if any of you know whether a 1985 505 GTi would have an IAT sensor as this is necessary to apply this modification? The link is below if any of you are interested in it. I emailed the seller and he said unless I have an IAT sensor I shouldnt buy the product.

    So if the 1985 505 GTi has the IAT sensor could somebody please let me know it location.

    Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Chris
    First of all, this mod is a well known one and with a bit of googling you could probably find out how to do it for free. I think I remember seeing something like it on www.autospeed.com.au - hang on a tick...

    ..yep, have a look at http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1659/article.html

    What these mods do is fiddle the sensor readings to make the ECU think the air is colder and so inject more fuel or advance the ignition. It might provide a smidgin more power but it might also increase engine wear due to unburnt fuel washing oil off the cylinder walls as well as other side effects depending on what else in ECU depends upon the inputs.

    Like any 'something for nothing' modification it will bite you in the long run.

    Out of curiosity, I actually bought a couple of things from the eBayer in question a couple of months back. As I suspected, I got a CD full of stuff I could have downloaded from the 'net. Given his dire warnings about suing people if they also start selling 'his' stuff I have doubts about his honesty. I do a lot of searching for car stuff on eBay and at times his crap constitutes about a third of the hits. I even lodged a complaint about keyword spamming I got so fed up with it.

    Not one of eBays better citizens. Stay away.

    Now, those little computer fans they sell as superchargers are a completely different matter entirely...

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good mate for the e-Bay con in Queensland who rips off the Haynes manuals, makes the same dire threats but advertises them as being "translated into English" and uses some French sounding name and claims they were "compiled" by him. (Possibly a French exchange student he got to scan the Haynes manuals).

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CITROEN-XANTI...QQcmdZViewItem
    Given that Haynes has in the past closed down websites that have had copies of thier manual on, it's got me wet how they haven't stuck it up some of these for breach of copyright seeing as they are selling Haynes work as something else and claiming copyright of their own.


    Alan S
    Last edited by Alan S; 21st September 2005 at 03:35 PM.
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    This guy's no french student!

    He has hundreds or more workshop manuals available on disc and seems to have been selling them since 2002. Might send him a note and query copyright.

    ed ge

    cannot email without sign in, anybody else?
    peugeot manual no description as to model
    Last edited by edgedweller; 21st September 2005 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #7
    Tadpole the_gun18's Avatar
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    Thanks for your advice guys, I did feel he was a bit shifty and was a little sceptical but the mod was so cheap I thought I had nothing to lose.

    The car is serviced and running perfectly fine. I've installed a K&N air pod filter, replaced the spark plugs with NGKs and bought brand new leads.

    Just a question out of curiosity. Would it be possiible to purchase the necessary parts to bolt on the 505 turbo components onto a stock 505 motor without too much hassle? I have an apprentcie mechanic friend who will do the work for me so dont base it on my ability

    Hope you can help me out again.

    Thanks guys

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_gun18
    Hi guys,

    I was wondering if any of you know whether a 1985 505 GTi would have an IAT sensor as this is necessary to apply this modification? The link is below if any of you are interested in it. I emailed the seller and he said unless I have an IAT sensor I shouldnt buy the product.

    So if the 1985 505 GTi has the IAT sensor could somebody please let me know it location.

    Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Chris
    The 1985 GTi uses a normal distributor and the timing comes from this, so no it can't have any effect. It doesn't have an air temp sensor so the added resistor would not be effective in changing the mixture either. You could fiddle with the air flow meter to richen the mixture if you are silly enough, once these things are stuffed up you are deep trouble.
    What I can say though is that an aftermarket ECU properly setup gives a big improvement to these engines.
    Graham
    Last edited by GRAHAM WALLIS; 22nd September 2005 at 06:00 PM.

  9. #9
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    By the way, the resistor is a standard film type you can get for 5c (literally) from Dick Smith, Tandy or Jaycar.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    The 1985 GTi uses a normal distributor and the timing comes from this, so no it can't have any effect. It doesn't have an air temp sensor so the added resistor would not be effective in changing the mixture either. You could fiddle with the air flow meter to richen the mixture if you are silly enough, once these things are stuffed up you are deep trouble.
    What I can say though is that an aftermarket ECU properly setup gives a big improvement to these engines.
    Graham
    Graham,
    the L-Let on the 85 GTi does have an air temperture sensor in the air flow meter housing, as well as the engine temp ECU sensor.

    I have heard of people putting a Potentiometer on the engine temp ECU sensor to "adjust & fool" the computer to run slightly richer. Or as you have suggested fiddling with air flow sensor (if silly enough!!). If experimenting with air flow sensor, it is VERY WISE to mark the original postion of internal air flow sensor wheel. Relaxing the spring will richen. No more than two to three notches though. It can assist high mileage engines to allow for slight vaccuum leaks,compression etc.

    I have played lot in the past with these. I ended up putting it back to original position!!!

    Regards,

    Scott

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott 505 gti
    Graham,
    the L-Let on the 85 GTi does have an air temperture sensor in the air flow meter housing, as well as the engine temp ECU sensor.

    I have heard of people putting a Potentiometer on the engine temp ECU sensor to "adjust & fool" the computer to run slightly richer. Or as you have suggested fiddling with air flow sensor (if silly enough!!). If experimenting with air flow sensor, it is VERY WISE to mark the original postion of internal air flow sensor wheel. Relaxing the spring will richen. No more than two to three notches though. It can assist high mileage engines to allow for slight vaccuum leaks,compression etc.

    I have played lot in the past with these. I ended up putting it back to original position!!!

    Regards,


    Scott
    Thats interesting Scott, have you any idea as to its role? The AFM is by nature not supposed to need a temp sensor as denser air will open the flap more. AFAIK the engine temp sensor simply gives a richer mixture on warm up, but I guess you could invoke this function to richen the mixture.
    I haven't played with these at all but have converted two cars from L Jetronic to Megasquirt with excellent results.
    Graham

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Thats interesting Scott, have you any idea as to its role? The AFM is by nature not supposed to need a temp sensor as denser air will open the flap more. AFAIK the engine temp sensor simply gives a richer mixture on warm up, but I guess you could invoke this function to richen the mixture.
    I haven't played with these at all but have converted two cars from L Jetronic to Megasquirt with excellent results.
    Graham
    Graham,

    The air temp sensor in the airflow sensor, senses intake air temperature, ie signal to ECU for richer for cold air, leaner for warm air (I suppose a fine tuning for air density/Mass). The airflow sensor flap (vane type) senses only changing volume over the rev range, but doesn't fully address the air density. After about 3,500 RPM, the ECU reverts to predetermined ECU settings as Airflow sensor reaches MAX volume reading capacity.

    As an aside, in my VW caravelle, it has a MAF hot wire sensor and an air temp sensor in the intake after the MAF hot wire sensor.

    There are plenty of web sites on L-jet. This PDF document below is a pretty good summmary of the L-let features.

    http://www.firstfives.org/faq/ljet/jetronic.pdf

    Regards,

    Scott

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott 505 gti
    Graham,

    The air temp sensor in the airflow sensor, senses intake air temperature, ie signal to ECU for richer for cold air, leaner for warm air (I suppose a fine tuning for air density/Mass). The airflow sensor flap (vane type) senses only changing volume over the rev range, but doesn't fully address the air density. After about 3,500 RPM, the ECU reverts to predetermined ECU settings as Airflow sensor reaches MAX volume reading capacity.

    As an aside, in my VW caravelle, it has a MAF hot wire sensor and an air temp sensor in the intake after the MAF hot wire sensor.

    There are plenty of web sites on L-jet. This PDF document below is a pretty good summmary of the L-let features.

    http://www.firstfives.org/faq/ljet/jetronic.pdf

    Regards,

    Scott

    Interesting about the AFM having no effect after 3500, I guess the ECU just looks at revs and guesses what the driver is doing. The only thing to signify high loads is then the WOT switch on the throttle body!
    Easy to see why the maximum usuable revs increased from just over 6000 to 7300 when I fitted the Megasquirt.
    This was to a 505 GTi. My present 505 GTi is just using the standard L Jetronic system as it is very reliable and economical with adequate performance but it wouldn't take much to get me to update to Megasquirt on this as well.
    Graham

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Interesting about the AFM having no effect after 3500, I guess the ECU just looks at revs and guesses what the driver is doing. The only thing to signify high loads is then the WOT switch on the throttle body!
    Easy to see why the maximum usuable revs increased from just over 6000 to 7300 when I fitted the Megasquirt.
    This was to a 505 GTi. My present 505 GTi is just using the standard L Jetronic system as it is very reliable and economical with adequate performance but it wouldn't take much to get me to update to Megasquirt on this as well.
    Graham
    Graham,

    Certainly interesting re outcome of your 505 gti with a Megasquirt. I know you having been playing around with your 205.

    Regards,

    Scott

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