'R' spec tyre camparison
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Default 'R' spec tyre camparison

    Fellow Revheads,

    Time has come to replace the tyres on my club sprint 405 Mi16.

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    My current tyres are 'R' spec- Yokohama AO32R 205 X 50-15 on 6 1/2" rims (overall diameter 594mm)

    Recent conversations with a fellow PCCV member suggests Dunlop tyres are worth a few seconds/lap over the Yoki's.

    I've also been advised to change the tyre size down to 195 X 55-15 on the 6 1/2" rim.

    Question is- has anyone found the Dunlops' performance superior to any other equivalent brand?


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
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    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
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    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    The NEW Dunlop's are supposed to be ants pants of R tyres. (Dont confuse them with DO1J's which were endurance tyre rather then performance tyre).
    Dave Mackie has reported a very favourable opinion of them on his PRB clubman. Until i try them myself I cant offer a better opinion.
    .
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Hey Tekkie',

    I heard the Dunlops (D202G) were a response to the newer Yoki A048R which supposedly performs better at a lower & higher temp ranges & will be the control tyre (in Aust) for as few categories in 2006.


    Jeff



    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    The NEW Dunlop's are supposed to be ants pants of R tyres. (Dont confuse them with DO1J's which were endurance tyre rather then performance tyre).
    Dave Mackie has reported a very favourable opinion of them on his PRB clubman. Until i try them myself I cant offer a better opinion.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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    Fellow Frogger! Kyle's Avatar
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    Voytek, what sort of mileage can you get outta those do1j's??

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    Voytek, what sort of mileage can you get outta those do1j's??
    Sorry to but in


    Dunno, for sure-some say 1500km if driven to their potential.


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    Fellow Revheads,

    Time has come to replace the tyres on my club sprint 405 Mi16.

    My current tyres are 'R' spec- Yokohama AO32R 205 X 50-15 on 6 1/2" rims (overall diameter 594mm)

    Recent conversations with a fellow PCCV member suggests Dunlop tyres are worth a few seconds/lap over the Yoki's.

    I've also been advised to change the tyre size down to 195 X 55-15 on the 6 1/2" rim.

    Question is- has anyone found the Dunlops' performance superior to any other equivalent brand?

    Jeff
    I have not tested the Dunlops myself but reviews are mixed. I was told that you have to record tire temperatures and play a lot with cold inflation pressures. I had the A032's, I thought they were okay.

    I would also second the 195/55/15 recommendation, on Yokohama AO48R. It is a great tire, I actually use it every day with 38 psi cold inflation pressure. Surprisingly, it is also quite decent in the rain as well.

    Thanos
    Last edited by Thanos; 19th September 2005 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    Voytek, what sort of mileage can you get outta those do1j's??
    let me ask 1st, how do you plan to drive on them?

    The problem with DO1J's was the tyre's inability to handle the heat cycles well. Both Peter and Parry reported poor performance after only just few events. And whilst the thread was there, the grip wasnt.

    On the other hand Toyo RA1 heats up very quickly and doesnt appear to be affected by heat cycles, but it magically appears to resemble a slick tyre after just few events.
    .
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    Fellow Frogger! Kyle's Avatar
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    Hmmm... Maybe ill steer away from form r tyres for spirited road use

    running azenis rt215's atm, and they seem to do the job well all round....

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Hi Thanos,

    I've seen some of your recent threads-seems lke you've been down the 'been there done that' path yourself!

    I'm happy to stay with the Yoki compound, even at '48'spec if it's competitive!

    Surprised at your inflation pressures.

    I run (cold 32R's) at 25psi which makes 30psi during a sprint (which I am told is the correct operating temp).

    When I ran 40psi (cold) I blistered a front right a Phillip Isl.


    Jeff


    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos
    I have not tested the Dunlops myself but reviews are mixed. I was told that you have to record tire temperatures and play a lot with cold inflation pressures. I had the Ao32's, I thought they were okay.

    I would also second the 195/55/15 recommendation, on Yokohama AO48R. It is a great tire, I actually use it every day with 38 psi cold inflation pressure. Surprisingly, it is also quite decent in the rain as well.

    Thanos
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
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    Previous Frenchies-
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    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    Hmmm... Maybe ill steer away from form r tyres for spirited road use

    running azenis rt215's atm, and they seem to do the job well all round....
    Heat cycles wont really affect you if you are just doing spirited driving. They will offer you exceptional perfromance but limited lifespan. Flakens indeed may be the best choice if you happy with them. For a dedicated track use they unfortunately fall short of the mark comared to even the "worst" of the true R compounds.

    Dunlops D01J, Dz02, Yokies 032, 048, Kumho V70A, Toyo RA1, R881, form the bread and butter of club level racing scene and perform within few seconds of each other on the track, and you wouldnt notice too much difference between them when used on the street.

    .
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    Hi Thanos,

    I've seen some of your recent threads-seems lke you've been down the 'been there done that' path yourself!

    I'm happy to stay with the Yoki compound, even at '48'spec if it's competitive!

    Surprised at your inflation pressures.

    I run (cold 32R's) at 25psi which makes 30psi during a sprint (which I am told is the correct operating temp).

    When I ran 40psi (cold) I blistered a front right a Phillip Isl.


    Jeff

    Jeff

    I have done some of that (48 years old and still trying to improve), but I am far from being any sort of authority, just reporting personal experience.

    I run the 38 psi inflation pressures for everyday driving where the tires do not heat up as much (yes, I use the A048's every day, why save the fun for track days only!). For track or impromptu hill climbs I will run them at 33 psi. I hated the response to turn-in when I run 28 psi and most everyone I know runs 33 to 35 for track.

    Thanos

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    let me ask 1st, how do you plan to drive on them?
    The problem with DO1J's was the tyre's inability to handle the heat cycles well. Both Peter and Parry reported poor performance after only just few events. And whilst the thread was there, the grip wasnt.]QUOTE

    [On the other hand Toyo RA1 heats up very quickly and doesnt appear to be affected by heat cycles, but it magically appears to resemble a slick tyre after just few events.
    Flat out! It's all track work for these tyres! (1 lap warm up then 3-5 laps full on). I have even worse road tyres!!

    I'd have to agree-especially since the rebuild. Tyres sat in the shed for 12 months & I think they've got harder & lost grip.

    So the Toyos get faster (to the point when they reached their optimun track adhesion- probably limited by the amount of heating/cooling cycles??)
    QUOTE[

    What price the Toyo's?


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Previous Frenchies-
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    1997 306 N5 sedan
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    Flat out! It's all track work for these tyres! (1 lap warm up then 3-5 laps full on). I have even worse road tyres!!

    I'd have to agree-especially since the rebuild. Tyres sat in the shed for 12 months & I think they've got harder & lost grip.

    So the Toyos get faster (to the point when they reached their optimun track adhesion- probably limited by the amount of heating/cooling cycles??)
    QUOTE[

    What price the Toyo's?


    Jeff
    Yup, Toyos heat up very quickly, (usually 1/3 of the track length).

    185/60x13 cost $204 fitted and balanced. Virtually identical price to Yokies A032. I assume your 15's would cost a tad more.
    .
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    QUOTE:[I assume your 15's would cost a tad more.]QUOTE

    Looking at $285 + fitting (to Pug rims with no centre bore-how the tyre co's. luurve these Frog rims)!


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
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    Previous Frenchies-
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    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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    I'm after 205/50R15 tyres for track use and possibly some street driving as well for my Clio.

    I've heard the Falken Azenis have soft sidewalls, compared to the full steel belted sidewalls of the proper semi slick tyres mentioned above.

    Are there any other options?

    It seems after $180 for the Azenis, there are $300 semis and nothing in between.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClioF1
    I'm after 205/50R15 tyres for track use and possibly some street driving as well for my Clio.

    I've heard the Falken Azenis have soft sidewalls, compared to the full steel belted sidewalls of the proper semi slick tyres mentioned above.

    Are there any other options?

    It seems after $180 for the Azenis, there are $300 semis and nothing in between.
    The Azenis lasted me 1500 miles of, ahem, spirited street driving. Still looked good after that, but handled a lot worse than new. So if you look at the cost per mile, they are no bargain. I liked them when they were new though, they were quite communicative.
    Last edited by Thanos; 20th September 2005 at 12:07 PM.

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    Yeah i'm hearing more and more bad things about the Azenis. I think Toyo R888s are looking good, found out they are $251 each.

    If I was spending $320 on DZ02Js I would probably also look into the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, but at least the Toyos are a reasonable price.

    Anyone know where I can get a price on the Bridgestone RE540S? I spoke to Gordon Leven himself today and he hasn't even heard of it! Hmm..
    Last edited by ClioF1; 20th September 2005 at 02:15 PM.
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  18. #18
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    I would have thought the 205x50/15 profile would be OK on the 6.5" rim? It's definitely too baggy on a 6". I can't really advise as I haven't turned a wheel in anger for 6 months! I currently have AO32's. Once they're worn I'm switching over to DZ02's, if only to stay ahead of Tekkie! Everyone seems to rave over them. Definitely stay clear of the D01J's if you're a sprinter.

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    I would have thought the 205x50/15 profile would be OK on the 6.5" rim? It's definitely too baggy on a 6". I can't really advise as I haven't turned a wheel in anger for 6 months! I currently have AO32's. Once they're worn I'm switching over to DZ02's, if only to stay ahead of Tekkie! Everyone seems to rave over them. Definitely stay clear of the D01J's if you're a sprinter.
    Toyo lists the 6.0 inch rim as the ideal size for their 205/50x15 RA1's (5.5~7.5 is the acceptable range). I wouldnt imagine other makes would be that far off that figure.

    For 205/55x16 its 6.5inch.
    Full listing here

    Pete, what happened mate. Each round I turn up expecting your pug to be there. But only Parry and Ash are the regulars (as is Hans still coming to terms with your old 205). With Wullemins taking the extended leave of absence you in your old Pug would have been winning the CSCA NM3A this year.
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    When I was in the market for tyres a few years ago I got that rim/tyre sizing from the Yokohama site.

    Recent enquiries from a Yoki agent (which supply tyres for Improved Prod series in Vic) suggests 195x55/15 on a 6 1/2" rim & 205x50/15 on a 7" rim.

    I'll give Stuckey a call tomorrow & get their opinion on sizes.

    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    When I was in the market for tyres a few years ago I got that rim/tyre sizing from the Yokohama site.

    Recent enquiries from a Yoki agent (which supply tyres for Improved Prod series in Vic) suggests 195x55/15 on a 6 1/2" rim & 205x50/15 on a 7" rim.

    I'll give Stuckey a call tomorrow & get their opinion on sizes.

    Jeff

    My opinion is strictly empirical but here is what I think:
    The ideal rim width depends not only on tire width, but sidewall height as well, with shorter sidewalls requiring a wider rim. For example a 225/60 (13.5 cm sidewall height) tire may require a seven inch rim whereas a 225/40 (9 cm sidewall height) tire may require an 8 inch rim. The above tire sizes are random numbers, and are used as examples only. I know that on my 106 Rallye, the 195/45/15's (8.8 cm sidewall height) work much better with 6.5 inches, I really feel they are kind of wobbly with 6 inch rims. The 195/60/15's (11.8 cm sidewall height) I have on my 504 work fine with the 6 inch rims, no sign of wobble whatsoever.

    Thanos

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    I have just switched from A032's [good tyre] to Dunlop D01's [$250 each from Sydney} and really like them....they do it for me !
    Also i have A048's on the Lotus and they are miles ahead of what were on there [A039's me thinks ] These tyres must have something going for them as they are now standard on 2004+ Lotii

    My 2c worth, cheers JR
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I have been running a friend's Datsun 1600 regularly on Toyo RA1s and have found them to be excellent. They last well, grip seems to stay until they get down to canvas, and they warm up quickly and are seemingly affected minimally by heat cycles.

    I think they are only available in a 205/50/15 and not the 195/55s. On a 6.5" rim the 205s would be fine. The quickest sedans at the Mt Cotton Hillclimb run on them. One of these cars, a Suzuki Swift (Turbo) ran 11.2 1/4 mile on them as well, so they can't be putting the power down too bad.
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    I spoke to Stuckey's (Vic agent for Dunlop competition tyres) today about tyre sizes.

    He (Michael) thought the 6 1/2" rim could take either size-although the 205 x 50/15's may be pinched at the bead a little giving a rounded contact patch across the tread.

    The 195's would present a flatter tread face being 9mm narrower (201mm against 210mm).

    I think the Mi16 does 'float' on the 205 Yoki's a little, which the smaller 195's may overcome.

    The DZ02G comes in 4 compounds-H,R,M,S, but will be dropping the 'M' compound (in 15" sizing at least) due to their high wear rate.

    Their 'S' compound is equivalent to a Yoki AO32R.

    http://www.stuckey.com.au/tyres_deta...TyreName=DZ02G

    Price is reasonable for these new generation tyres-

    Eg: 195 x 55/15" @ $295 fitted & balanced.


    Thanos, the 48's are also an option (and will be the control tyre in a few categories in Victoria next year).

    What rim size are you using?

    tekkie & alan-The Toyo's may be good, but looking around the pit paddock, Dunlop & Yoki's appear everywhere. That's not to say the big guns can't make a lousy tyre- just look at Michelin's effort at the US. G.P.

    Thanks for all the input too guys


    Jeff

    The old Yoki's will have to do for Sandown early Oct.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
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    Previous Frenchies-
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    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    tekkie & alan-The Toyo's may be good, but looking around the pit paddock, Dunlop & Yoki's appear everywhere. That's not to say the big guns can't make a lousy tyre- just look at Michelin's effort at the US. G.P.
    Thanks for all the input too guys
    Jeff
    Just because a lot of people use them doesnt mean they are the best.... Ao32's are popular because they are the control tyre for IPRA guys and are reasnoably priced.

    I tried Kumho V70A, A032 and RA1. RA1 is the softest by a country mile. DO1J the worst for heat cycles that I have seen. Dz02 is unknown quality being so new, but please let us know how you went.

    .
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