Automotive Engineers?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    Default Automotive Engineers?

    Gday folks

    Anyone know an engineer in melbourne that can help with an invention.

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    Basicly what I require is the nessary paperwork to approve my device to be road tested prior to the engineering there of. Because it is still unproven I wanna get results on the board before getting a full engineers.

    Anyone out know about this legal process? How much detail do they want??

    Als

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    you're going to have to part with a few more details - like what is your device (dont give too much away)

    are you engineering something to add on to a car ?

    are you engineering your own chassis ?

    are you making major suspension changes.

    are you making a motor, or your own fuel ????

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Default Sshhhh!

    Hi, Als,

    A forum is the last place you want to be discussing anything regarding an invention.

    From your post, it's unclear if you mean how much info the engineer needs, or the patent office needs.

    If you haven't already done so, go to the Aus patent office at

    http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/

    If they are as helpful as their UK counterparts you'll find them very useful.

    DON'T DISCUSS YOUR IDEA WITH ANYONE UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THEM.

    Best of luck with whatever it is.

    Mike.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'd say Mike's suggestion is a good one and when they tell you to look at a legal eagle, might pay to have a poke around in here prior to speaking to them so you *may* get some hints as to which one to use if you ask IP Australia for their opinion.
    I think first step they might suggest would be a search to see if it has already been done or patented followed by ways and means of tying it up.
    As Mike says, keep very hush on it particularly as regards large corporations. I once met an old guy who swore he designed and invented the Bendix brake for locomotives and showed me the original working drawing he made up. He then took it to a multi natiional company for assessment before he spent too much money developing the system who asked for time to evaluate what he'd done via their engineers. His theories were rejected by the big company as being impractical, so he decided he'd go ahead and try to sell it via independent manufacturers only to discover that when he presented it for patent rights, they had already been taken out. No prizes for guessing by who.
    To my knowledge the system is still being manufactured and used to this day all over the World but the old guy died as a pensioner not a retired idustrialist just by being trusting. It would be the kind of thing where it would pay for you to be almost paranoid about who you were dealing with and how far you could trust them; if in doubt, take it elsewhere be that legal or Government included in that assessment.

    http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...cr%3DcountryAU


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Geez Alan. That story makes me sick to the stomach. How can those people responsible for shafting him be able to sleep at night!? Can't imagine how pissed off the old guy must've been.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    Geez Alan. That story makes me sick to the stomach. How can those people responsible for shafting him be able to sleep at night!? Can't imagine how pissed off the old guy must've been.
    Multi nationals usually are made up of types who don't suffer from pangs of conscence. This old fellow worked at the Ipswich Railway Workshops and was right into trains as a lot of Railway men were.
    Under his house in Eastern Heights Ipswich, he had a full working train set up using steam powered trains, all made by hand by him. He was a brilliant engineer who never received the credit he deserved, but the yank based company who did this were never forgotten by him or anyone who knew him and still merrily operate to this day. When they get that big, it's useless trying to fight them as he discovered; you can afford a solicitor, they use a QC. You win, they appeal and so it goes on. He never really got over it.
    Welcome to the World of big business.



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsPug504
    Gday folks

    Anyone know an engineer in melbourne that can help with an invention.

    Basicly what I require is the nessary paperwork to approve my device to be road tested prior to the engineering there of. Because it is still unproven I wanna get results on the board before getting a full engineers.

    Anyone out know about this legal process? How much detail do they want??

    Als
    Als

    You've received some solid advice from Mike and Alan S.

    BTW, U Turn, there are more stories like Alan S described than one would like to believe. I used to work for a multinational chemical company, I have more than a dozen patents myself, and I have seen a lot of that.

    The basic requirements for granting a patent are:

    It has to be new (novel in legalese); it must constitute an "improvement over the current state of the art" and must not be a development that is "obvious to a person ordinarily skilled in the art".

    Legal fees can run into some serious dough, and this so that you could be informed that your "invention" is already patented or used in commerce. I should also note that even if your idea has not been patented but someone has "reduced it to art", which means it may have been done before, even once, you cannot get a patent on it. Suppose you go though all that and the get a patent. If it is an Australian patent, they can produce and sell everywhere else in the world, which means you have to get coverage in all the major countries/markets (more $$$$ going out). You spend the dough, you get the protection, and then they violate the patent. Now you have to litigate (time and $$$$$$$) and possibly overseas. Discouraged yet? This is not my intention; I just think you should be walking into this with your eyes open.

    It is quite possible that your idea is worthy of all the effort and expense. If I were you:

    1. I would keep my mouth SHUT.
    2. Write out as an "Invention Disclosure" a basic description of my idea and have it notarized /witnessed.
    3. Do the basic research myself rather than contacting a law firm. Go to www.uspto.gov and run a search to see if anyone has patented anything similar to my invention. It is the site of the US patent office and nearly all patented inventions have a US patent equivalent. One can also get an idea how to write a rough draft that the lawyers can go from and save some more money.

    I hope this helps, that you are granted a patent, that you hit it big and that you buy each of the first three people who advised you on this (Mike, Alan S and your humble servant) the Peugeot (or even Citroen) of our choice.

    Lots of luck

    Thanos

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! PLAYLIFE's Avatar
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    What type of engineer, or in what field should they excel?

    Strutures?
    Aerodynamics? (incl. thermo, such as cooling, etc.)
    Propulsion?
    Materials?
    Software/hardware?
    Electrical/electronic?


    You could probably get the engineering expertise relatively easily, it's just a matter of certification which is the issue. I'm currently considering doing some work away from work on a clutch improvement. The engineering side of things is relatively straight forward, it's just the certification required to be able to verify these solutions 'legally' that is problematic.
    Last edited by PLAYLIFE; 22nd September 2005 at 03:53 PM.
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Al as said
    "A forum is the last place you want to be discussing anything regarding an invention."

    Some forums even have written in their rules that anything mentioned on the forum is copyrighted to them.

    Once bitten twice shy, an invention of mine is now in public domain.

    As everyone else has said, keep it quiet and involve only those necessary to get to the patent stage if you go that route.
    Best of luck.

    Paul.
    504-504-504.
    Northern Outpost.

    'If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least
    once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.'

    René Descartes (1596- 1650)

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    Not planning to disclose the invention at all on this or any site.

    My question was more relating to legally road testing it.

    Thank you for all your responses.

    I spoke an auto engineer about such a possibilty of road testing (nothing about the invention.) and accorrding him. he reckons dyno time is my only option. And a cover note to get me there.

    To answer your questions.

    Playlife

    What type of engineer? One that covers electronics, structure, propulsion, mechanical. Excel? Well the basics of each would help.

    XsaraVTS

    It would engineered as. An add on. But It does integrates with existing equipment.

    Als

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! PLAYLIFE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsPug504
    Not planning to disclose the invention at all on this or any site.

    My question was more relating to legally road testing it.

    Thank you for all your responses.

    I spoke an auto engineer about such a possibilty of road testing (nothing about the invention.) and accorrding him. he reckons dyno time is my only option. And a cover note to get me there.

    To answer your questions.

    Playlife

    What type of engineer? One that covers electronics, structure, propulsion, mechanical. Excel? Well the basics of each would help.

    XsaraVTS

    It would engineered as. An add on. But It does integrates with existing equipment.

    Als

    I'm not entirely sure how the auto industry works here in Australia (but I would assume it to be similar to Europe), but in the aerospace industry we have to obtain 'permission' from the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) if we are to modify or add-on anything to that particular system. This usually costs a few bucks and then being able to obtain the official documentation(s) for that component (even more difficult if it has since been upgraded after initial design) can be somewhat political and therefore difficult. If it is a relatively simple piece of equipment then it shouldn't be too bad.

    As I stated earlier, to certify the system you will have certain verification processes using perhaps a computer program, a mechanical device etc., for which the engineer will have to have an official license. This is the problem I am having now in that I need a license for a program which costs an arm and a leg and this is the only way i can verify and justify my work. If you do find an engineer with the tools necessary to carry out not only the work but verifications, then you'll be ok.
    1977-1982
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  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    This might sound too simple to be even considered, but think about it's practicality.
    Why not send an e-mail off to the the ABCs "New Inventors" producers and ask the question of them?
    You'd have to think it's something they'd have as much experience as anyone with and should be right up to date on Australian laws regarding it given that it almsot has to be the backbone of their program. Make noises like you intend offering them a look at it for the program once all the loose ends are tied up.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    Icon7

    but in the aerospace industry we have to obtain 'permission' from the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) if we are to modify or add-on anything to that particular system.
    Aero can be very tricky. Did some stuff for the Aus army S76 as an "add on" the amount of political red tape. The engineering problems become very big all over a small change. And Sikorksy was would not allow the mods. even after a fortune was spent on design.

    Like your suggestion Alan sounds simple. And I will give it a go.

    I am just wondering if I have a LVT (license Vehical Tester) aboard the vehical during tests. I think my work has a LVT.
    If that would legalise the intial test. i might give vic roads a bell and find out more of my options.

    ALs

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I've had cause over the years to have to contact a particular show for advice and usually I find that the producer or chief researcher is the one who responds as they are usually someone very experienced and competant in the field the show is based on and will freely offer advice.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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