head gasket install???
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default head gasket install???

    the haines says to install the head gasket dry in the 205 gti
    i presume this means without gasket goo type sealant.
    -BAZZ

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  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    the haines says to install the head gasket dry in the 205 gti
    i presume this means without gasket goo type sealant.
    -BAZZ

    Exactly.
    Look at the gasket. It should be a grey looking thing with a blue stuff that looks like it's been put on with a silicone gun around the cylinders and various other apertures; that's the sealant that comes attached to the gasket. This stuff busts out when the head is tightened and does all the necessary sealing between the gasket and the opposing surfaces.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Helpful Hint?

    After rebuilding engine, don't put glycol coolant in at start up. Put in plain de-ionised water, then after couple of days running, when all gaskets have properly sealed, drain some off and put in the correct % of concentrate, or drain it all out and fill with coolant.

    Reason: Glycol coolant has very low surface tension and seeps under the gaskets before they get hot and seal properly. Plain water does not seep thru as easily.

    Refer ACL (Aust gasket manufacturers) website tech info for confirmation.

    Regards
    Fordman.

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Be super thorough with cleaning surfaces ther head gasket sits on. Wipe block and head faces with a solvent. I also lightly rub the liner tops with fine emery paper to give a good surface for the gasket to "key" into.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    And make sure you use the locating dowels to locate it in the right spot, and prop them up with a nail or drill bit or something (there is a hole to slide them in underneath - otherwise when you are trying to lift the head on you bloody squash them down into the head and the headgasket slips and you have to lift the thing off realign it and start again.

    Dave


  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    thanks for the tips fella's.
    so by dry it doesnt mean your supposed to do the job thirsty?-BAZZ

  7. #7
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    thanks for the tips fella's.
    so by dry it doesnt mean your supposed to do the job thirsty?-BAZZ

    Hide the bottle opener.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Default Ancient history

    There ancient history now Alan.

    Apparently the yoof of today could not figure out how to use them and beer sales were plummeting, some clever techie decided that twisties were the go and the yoof have been sodden ever since.

    And me, I had all me money invested in a bottle opener factory.

    ed ge

  9. #9
    al
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    hopefully ready to install the gasket next time, as we GOT THE HEAD OFF! So far it has only taken seven months, and around 200 hours...

    Seriously though, the only problem today was a stubborn crank sprocket. (the bolt came out fine) All the headbolts were ok, and the heads seal is broken...

    This was possibly the most satisfying thing ever... (fingers crossed we didn't break anything though...)
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    What did you end up deciding on this? Redoing the existing head or did you buy a spare head and get it redone?
    Either way, clean up the head and get the guy doing the machine work to give you a report on any cracks or warps so you know if you have a spare head or a boat anchor and in the interests of experience, get him to show you where the damage is, what it is and how it can be rectified.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    What did you end up deciding on this? Redoing the existing head or did you buy a spare head and get it redone?
    Either way, clean up the head and get the guy doing the machine work to give you a report on any cracks or warps so you know if you have a spare head or a boat anchor and in the interests of experience, get him to show you where the damage is, what it is and how it can be rectified.


    Alan S
    I bought Casnell's head (quite attractive it is too...) and had it machined a while ago. Now i just have to move all the inlet and exhaust studs over to the new head, and reattach it...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! amcc's Avatar
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    according to my work hyloma or hylomar not sure exactly is a must on all head gaskets. its a spray on job from bursons. costs a bit but is apparently great stuff.
    French - 92 205mi16, 87 205gti and spares
    Other - Amarok V6, Iveco Daily 50C17, Isuzu 600

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    I bought Casnell's head (quite attractive it is too...) and had it machined a while ago. Now i just have to move all the inlet and exhaust studs over to the new head, and reattach it...
    Have you cleaned up and examined the one you took off yet? Just wondering what the final report of its condition was and what was wrong with it.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Have you cleaned up and examined the one you took off yet? Just wondering what the final report of its condition was and what was wrong with it.


    Alan S
    It is still sitting in the car as i haven't removed the thermostat housing yet... When i get it out i will have a look at it, and if it looks decent get it tested and cleaned up.

    If it is ok i'm sure it could be useful to someone else wanting to do this procedure.
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  15. #15
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    It is still sitting in the car as i haven't removed the thermostat housing yet... When i get it out i will have a look at it, and if it looks decent get it tested and cleaned up.

    If it is ok i'm sure it could be useful to someone else wanting to do this procedure.

    You will be fitting a new thermostat I hope?
    The ones they use on these things have a very limited life expectancy and seeing as this car had heating issues, I'd give it the "Reversed C" test***
    They aren't expensive and it removes any risk.


    Alan S


    *** The "Reversed C" test:-

    Take old thermostat and form thumb and forefinger in a way so that it looks like a mirror reversed letter C.
    Sit the old thermostat in the middle of the C and throw as hard as you can. If it returns like a bommerang, this proves it is OK and does not require replacement.
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    It is still sitting in the car as i haven't removed the thermostat housing yet... When i get it out i will have a look at it, and if it looks decent get it tested and cleaned up.

    If it is ok i'm sure it could be useful to someone else wanting to do this procedure.
    It's sort of like pass the parcel, only pass the head...
    205gti

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amcc
    according to my work hyloma or hylomar not sure exactly is a must on all head gaskets. its a spray on job from bursons. costs a bit but is apparently great stuff.
    The gaskets (Mellior usually) I have always got for froggy cars have what appears to be a clear laquer type stuff on them. They are a bit sticky to touch and i always assumed this was some sort of sprayed on adhesive.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    yes we finally got the head off.it didnt take much persuasian.i used the old head bolts[as we have hew ones] and rocked the head back n forth and after about 10 or so rocks the back seal gave way first then the front.
    not as much drama as some would have you beleive as this is the first one ive ever done.
    but i spose every story is different.
    the crank pulley was the killer as we didnt have a puller and had to persuade it off.much minute rocking till it finally came.
    took us a bit to find the little fly wheel guard that you remove to jam the flywheel to get the crank nut loose.but we did finally.
    it was a fruitfull day really.
    will change cam sprocket and other fittngs to new machined head on sunday and whack the little blighter back on.
    have a lend of the angle tension guage from my mechanic so its all on the up and up.
    should see it reaseembled some time mid next year.[i can hear al screaming from here]
    -BAZZ

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Head gasket. [second try!]

    Bazz,
    Before removing the head did you knock down the gasket/head guide* sleeves or dowels?
    I ask because you mentioned "rocking" the head to release it. The approved method, [mentioned in your Haynes?], is after knocking down the sleeves the head should be twisted or rotated on the block to release. Some pursuasion with a soft mallet, knocking sideways, may be needed.
    To pull the head straight up runs the risk of disturbing the liners

    *To knock the dowels down you will need a punch. I made one years ago for doing this job on PRV6's. It is made out of 6mm round steel with a slight kink at one end, this was ground flat across the dia. The finished shape being like a hoof.
    With the respective studs removed the punch is put in the 'ole until the edge of the sleeve is felt. Two or three taps with a hammer should knock the sleeves down flush with the block.
    To extract the sleeves use a pair of expanding circlip pliers. The reasons for this should be in the Haynes?

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Geez I'd be really worried about having disturbed the liners...the method it to slide the head off not pull it.

    Are 205's anything like the old XN's in 504/5's where you can mesure the liners ? I'd be doing this if thats the case.

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I'd be checking all the liners against the block with a nice flat edge and a feeler guage to make sure they are all still nice and even (and at the specified protrusion). Don't be too stressed guys, i've had the head off my GT 3 times and have never disturbed a liner. They get pretty stuck in there with age.

    Dave


  22. #22
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug_405_Mi16
    Geez I'd be really worried about having disturbed the liners...the method it to slide the head off not pull it.

    Are 205's anything like the old XN's in 504/5's where you can mesure the liners ? I'd be doing this if thats the case.

    Cheers

    Ben
    This was one of my concerns, but baz ripped it off and said he knew what he was doing... I hope he did anyway...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    I've done plenty of heads as well and I remember disturbing the liners by pulling the head off when I did my first one.....

    Turned into a HUGE job had to pull the motor and do the seals....

    I have to say as well, and i'm sure some wont agree, if the head has blown on a wet sleeve motor it is good practice to do the liner seals. If it were my car i'd be thinking about it before you get to putting the head on.....

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  24. #24
    al
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    Ok, i just rang one of my mates and got his dad to talk me through how to finish this off properly...

    So, now the head is off, here are my findings...

    It looks as though it blew between 2 + 3, although there is absolutely no gasket left... Cylinders 2 + 3 have a fairly unpleasant looking orange (rusty) water in them, and in these cylinders it looks as though the liners are sitting slightly lower than the block... I know this isn't good, but it seems strange that it would only happen in the inner two cylinders... Or not??

    I have doubts about the state of the bottom end now - should i just look at picking up another running engine? (possibly with some extra valves??)

    I will try and get my camera working now to show this more clearly.
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    If any of the liners are lower than the block you definately need to pull the liners out to inspect. And if your doing that on a high k engine you might as well completely rebuild it with new rings and whatever else turns out to be stuffed.

    It probably is cheaper to get a 2nd hand running engine, but if you fully rebuild this one at least you know it will be fine for a good number of years.

    Dave


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