505 GTI/STI suspension or brake upgrades?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    Default 505 GTI/STI suspension or brake upgrades?

    Any of you guys upgraded the suspension on a 505 GTI or STI? & or are bigger brake caliper/rotor/pad kits available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    Any of you guys upgraded the suspension on a 505 GTI or STI? & or are bigger brake caliper/rotor/pad kits available?
    604 brakes will bolt straight on and are vented.
    Graham

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    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    Have just put cross drilled and slotted rotors on the front. Same disc size as stock 505 issue. Would the 604 callipers work on these or are 505 disc's to small?
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    Have just put cross drilled and slotted rotors on the front. Same disc size as stock 505 issue. Would the 604 callipers work on these or are 505 disc's to small?
    604 calipers have no more pad area, they are just wider to accomodate the thicker, ventilated rotor of the 604. 504s and 505s rarely suffer from brake fade, 604s never do.

    If you're after more braking power, make sure all your hoses are in good nick, or replace them all with braided lines, install a 604 brake booster (tight fit, but possible), or consider adapting Volvo 264 brakes to the front.

    I towed a 504 wagon today on a car trailer behind my 1964 404 Commerciale (4 wheel drum brakes). The drive down through the Adelaide hills was.... interesting, to say the least. Took it nice and easy. I think I'll be fitting 504 discs to the front of that, and a power booster!!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    Any of you guys upgraded the suspension on a 505 GTI or STI? & or are bigger brake caliper/rotor/pad kits available?
    what are you after to do with the car ?

    if for track use then there is more that can be done but if for a daily driver you have limits

    stiffer springs in the rear and good shocks and then ensure you have good bushes in the front end and leave the springs as they are but have good shocks and use a twin sway bar setup

    by leaving the springs as standard you still get the legendary peugeot ride and bite from the front end without as much bodyroll
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    VN-VS Commodore calipers bolt straight on. You'll need a different hose to suit the new caliper but it's ony a short one so Pirtek etc could make one up pretty cheap.
    I haven't tried this but Stuart (Pugtech in Brisbane) said it's an easy swap. He said that it's a definite step forward in braking power. Mind you, I've only ever had cheap crappy pads on my Pugs and I've never experienced any fade.
    What's the reason for wanting to swap?

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    Member eatpeople04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    VN-VS Commodore calipers bolt straight on. You'll need a different hose to suit the new caliper but it's ony a short one so Pirtek etc could make one up pretty cheap.
    I haven't tried this but Stuart (Pugtech in Brisbane) said it's an easy swap. He said that it's a definite step forward in braking power. Mind you, I've only ever had cheap crappy pads on my Pugs and I've never experienced any fade.
    What's the reason for wanting to swap?
    This is interesting. Is it just the caliper that is replaced? I assume that they have a larger pad area or something similar.

    And james, where were the new discs and how much if you don't mind my asking (or your telling )
    eatpeople04

    Now showing in:
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    VN-VS Commodore calipers bolt straight on. You'll need a different hose to suit the new caliper but it's ony a short one so Pirtek etc could make one up pretty cheap.
    I haven't tried this but Stuart (Pugtech in Brisbane) said it's an easy swap. He said that it's a definite step forward in braking power. Mind you, I've only ever had cheap crappy pads on my Pugs and I've never experienced any fade.
    What's the reason for wanting to swap?
    I fitted these calipers to my 404 but had to have special mounts made.
    They worked well even without power assist and with 604 discs and some highly regarded Lucas pads were fade free.
    Graham

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    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    Mark at Lion auto is where I send my cars. He rebuild the front end and replaced all that could be replaced (shocks, bairings, pads etc.). The rotors were $190- pair.
    I want a club level car and chose the 505 because of its chassis, price and strength. Once the suspension and breaking is sorted the engine/gearbox will be looked at (If I can only find a way to fit a Nissan RB30 in it!)

    * With the twin swaybars, do you use 2 GTI ones at the front and customise the links?

    * Do the commodore calipers fit straight on 505 struts with 604 rotors?
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    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    * With the twin swaybars, do you use 2 GTI ones at the front and customise the links?
    Easiest way I've found to do it is to use two 504 swaybars, as well as the 504 linkages at each end. Minimal modification is required then, as the end of the 504 swaybars have flat eyelets, instead of the 90 degree bend of the 505s.
    I think that the GTi swaybars are too stiff to use two of at the front, you'll end up with massive understeer.
    Last edited by Demannu; 19th August 2005 at 11:52 PM.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    Cool, thanks.

    In your list of cars I see you have a V6 in a 505. Did you do the transplant?
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the last one i did was using 2 504 bars, this time around i will be using 2 604 bars

    the 2nd bar i chop the ends off and make hangers up that also allow the 2nd to slide a little so it doesn't bind

    using standard front springs there isn't any understeer and i have done many miles with a setup like this and some very hard driving

    in the V6 504 i had this setup in i never got any understeer yet i could get oversteer whenever i wanted
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    Mark at Lion auto is where I send my cars. He rebuild the front end and replaced all that could be replaced (shocks, bairings, pads etc.). The rotors were $190- pair.
    I want a club level car and chose the 505 because of its chassis, price and strength. Once the suspension and breaking is sorted the engine/gearbox will be looked at (If I can only find a way to fit a Nissan RB30 in it!)

    * With the twin swaybars, do you use 2 GTI ones at the front and customise the links?

    * Do the commodore calipers fit straight on 505 struts with 604 rotors?
    Please don't insult your 505 by fitting a motor used in a dull as ditchwater Commodore. If you want more power from your GTi then by a used T28, new computer, a $300 intercooler from Ebay (big and good value), allow $800 for IC plumbing and turbo manifold and 4-$600 for ECU fit and tune. Another $500 for injectors and fuel pressure regulator and there's an instant 150kw and (mechanically) keeping everything 'in house'.
    Probably end up cheaper than the Nissan motor transplant.
    Chris.

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    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    The reason I suggest a nissan engine is that I know how hard it is to get hold of a BA7 and or BA10 gearboxes. All the BA7's I have wine, and I'm cautios I might damage them with more power running through them.
    Where as if I ran a nissan motor and a gearbox out of a R31 and R32 skyline with a modified attachment for the torque tube , these motors/gearboxes are cheap, strong and readily available.

    What gearbox and clutch do you run on your turbo 505?
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    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    & do 604 lower control arms fit straight on to a 505 to give the front some -ve camber?
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    The reason I suggest a nissan engine is that I know how hard it is to get hold of a BA7 and or BA10 gearboxes. All the BA7's I have wine, and I'm cautios I might damage them with more power running through them.
    Where as if I ran a nissan motor and a gearbox out of a R31 and R32 skyline with a modified attachment for the torque tube , these motors/gearboxes are cheap, strong and readily available.

    What gearbox and clutch do you run on your turbo 505?
    I switched to a combination of 85w/140 gear oil (3 parts) and Slick 50 (1 part) in my BA7/4 transmission and 3.70 diff and I only get whine after really getting on it whereas before it used to whine from the get-go. The added advantage in using Slick 50 is that it contains Teflon, a dry lubricant that tends to coat the metal parts so if your oil leakes out or its lubricating function is diminished, you still get some protection. I would not use Slick 50 on my engine, though, too many places for the Teflon to go to and I am not sure I want them there.

    Thanos
    Last edited by Thanos; 18th August 2005 at 09:35 PM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos
    I switched to a combination of 85w/140 gear oil (3 parts) and Slick 50 (1 part) in my BA7/4 transmission and 3.70 diff and I only get whine after really getting on it whereas before it used to whine from the get-go. The added advantage in using Slick 50 is that it contains Teflon, a dry lubricant that tends to coat the metal parts so if your oil leakes out or its lubricating function is diminished, you still get some protection. I would not use Slick 50 on my engine, though, too many places for the Teflon to go to and I am not sure I want them there.

    Thanos

    you are better off running 20/40 engine oil and putting some nulon additive in

    if it is whining that bad then you may need to think about bearings for it
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    & do 604 lower control arms fit straight on to a 505 to give the front some -ve camber?

    604 and 505 have the same lower control arms
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    you are better off running 20/40 engine oil and putting some nulon additive in

    if it is whining that bad then you may need to think about bearings for it
    New bearings may be in the future, although the tranny was rebuilt recently. I don't have access to nulon and I have tried 20W/50 engine oil but it heats up too fast here in Greece. Others have been using moly additive and heavier oil with good luck, but I have tried several combinations and this works best in my specific situation. What is your objection to my system? Have you used the specific items, or is it an intuitive reaction? I am not being argumentative, I truly want to learn, not to justify my actions. Is it the thickness that concerns you or the Slick 50? I use "Lubrication Enineering" for my 106 Rallye tranny (and so does the entire Group N crowd here) and it's is really thick and hard to shift when cold but works really great once it heats up (it better, it costs 40 euros a liter), so I am not as hesitant as others to use thicker oils.

    My apologies to the rest of the group reading this thread, I realize this is straying away from the topic.

    Thanos

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    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    The reason I suggest a nissan engine is that I know how hard it is to get hold of a BA7 and or BA10 gearboxes. All the BA7's I have wine, and I'm cautios I might damage them with more power running through them.
    Where as if I ran a nissan motor and a gearbox out of a R31 and R32 skyline with a modified attachment for the torque tube , these motors/gearboxes are cheap, strong and readily available.

    What gearbox and clutch do you run on your turbo 505?
    I've got a BA7/5 with a standard clutch. I think people underestimate these gearboxes. I've been putting 140 or so kw through mine and probably about 240-260nm and it wines noticably, but has done so from day one. It's out of an STi which a friend owned before me, and it had covered about 210k kms, again without fault.
    I was once told that the BA7/5 is not quite as strong (as a BA10) in terms of torque rating, but I'm yet to hear of anyone destroying one. I've also had the 'box out several times since the turbo went on so I capitolised and had it checked and the oil changed each time. Not one problem, and that's from two different mechanics checking it (both Pug men I might add).
    Even with a high torque output, it's only going to break if you treat it harshly. I don't flat shift, and only drop the clutch when I need to get through an intersection quickly (or similar).
    If it breaks, I'll investigate a straight cut gear set. Until then I'm happy with what I have and trust it completely. Above all, I still get to enjoy the thought of owning a unique Pug which puts a smile on my face every time the turbo spools up, Pug gearbox and all.

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    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    Interesting that most of the BA7's wine. I thought my other halfs 505's wine was loud until I bought the STI, (it's about as loud as a set of straight cut timing gears spinning.)

    I'll try an oil change and some additive. Castrol VMX80+slick 50 sound ok?
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  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    Interesting that most of the BA7's wine. I thought my other halfs 505's wine was loud until I bought the STI, (it's about as loud as a set of straight cut timing gears spinning.)

    I'll try an oil change and some additive. Castrol VMX80+slick 50 sound ok?
    That's exactly what I've got in mine at the moment. It's not broken so I guess that means that it's ok for this application.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    That's exactly what I've got in mine at the moment. It's not broken so I guess that means that it's ok for this application.
    Point of caution: Slick 50 formulation strength varies from country to country, so refer to the bottle for treatment levels. Ours is very dilute so we use 25%, but I know of areas where only 5% is needed.

  24. #24
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by james h
    Cool, thanks.

    In your list of cars I see you have a V6 in a 505. Did you do the transplant?
    In progress at the moment. Twin turbos are becoming a good option, I've become power obsessed.

    I've just finished putting a V6 into a 504 (for practice ), see My practice V6 project for a piccy of that one. It's a fairly straightforward swap, though me being me there were a lot of modifications done along the way.
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

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    Fellow Frogger! james h's Avatar
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    No one will suspect a thing! That looks like a fun piece of equipment to take up Greenhill Road.
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