Engineer Report Requirements
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! 20FIVE's Avatar
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    Default Engineer Report Requirements

    Iím sure that there may have been past discussions on what is required for modifying a car. But I was wondering if anybody can provide actual experience/encounters instead of here say.

    I am a point in time where I really need to do something to the 205, even though the performance is outstanding she runs out of puff..... The goal is to make sure it is still legal and insurable..... and I have procrastinated about this for a long time.

    - Would anybody have people they would recommend? Either Melbourne of Adelaide.
    - Costs for such services? (I have been advised $500 - $3000..... $500 sounds reasonable but how true this is I donít know)
    - Actual experiences with getting the car in a legal state...

    I have only seen one Mi16 converted 205 in Adelaide which complied with a general check by the boys in blue. Though this is a fairly common mod I would potentially try to undertake different challenges.... maybe (again with the procrastination!)

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    al
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    I know that a while ago in England there was some ambiguity in the requirement for "engineers certificates", and a mate actually got away with a report written by someone specialising in designing roads... If it helps my dad owns a civil engineering company...

    And can you hurry and and give me your motor...please?
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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    Hi there.
    I am ready to drop an mi16 into my 205.
    I spoke to the engineer about the cert and his words were that it is a very straight foward report due to the fact that there is no mods to make it fit(cutting up the car etc).
    As long as the std ecu is checked and verified that it is a not modified.
    As the power increse is more than 10% over std gti motoryou do need an engineers cert.
    The cost was around the $500 mark which is mainly paper work cost.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'm making mine look std. as possible, even to the extent of adding a 309GTi16V AFM elbow. I'm hoping it will be a simple blue slip engine number change.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Engineer Report Requirements-309-engine-bay.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger! 20FIVE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    I know that a while ago in England there was some ambiguity in the requirement for "engineers certificates", and a mate actually got away with a report written by someone specialising in designing roads... If it helps my dad owns a civil engineering company...

    And can you hurry and and give me your motor...please?
    Well does that meen I can write my own report??

    What you want my old monster engine for?

  6. #6
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20FIVE
    Well does that meen I can write my own report??

    What you want my old monster engine for?
    Sort of... The issue was that liability for injury or whatever in the case of an accident, arising as a result of the mod falls on the engineer... Technically if you wrote your own, you would be responsible for any dramas. If they don't look too closely into it the worst that could happen is your insurance company wouldn't cover you. (this is pretty bad - probably cheaper just to talk to a cheap engineer) I'm pretty sure this loophole has been sorted now though. (it probably didn't work exactly like that anyway)

    And why do i want your engine - 205gti headgasket
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    I know that a while ago in England there was some ambiguity in the requirement for "engineers certificates", and a mate actually got away with a report written by someone specialising in designing roads... If it helps my dad owns a civil engineering company...

    And can you hurry and and give me your motor...please?
    In Victoria at least, the only acceptable engineer's certificate is one from a VicRoads approved engineer (part of the VASS system). VicRoads publishes a list of those that are approved (~40 of them in the state) on their web site or available at their offices. From the same sources you can get simple spec sheets on what mods need the eng cert and simplified info sheets for meeting the various ADRs.

    I don't know why, but I couldn't access the VicRoads home page just then.

    The info sheets:
    http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/...256FD300241C39

    This one says you need the eng cert if the engine was not an option from the manufacturer:
    http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/...256FD300241C06

    The list of accredited engineers:
    http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf...29july2005.pdf

    All these engineers (OK, I've only heard about 3 or 4 of them) seem to have pet ADRs that they go crazy about and analyse to the nth degree and others that they'll pass if it just looks neatly done. Talk with one of these engineers before starting work and be open and honest. Mention your intention to improve safety aspects like brakes (preferably with better production items - not race stuff). If they are not sympathetic to what you want to do just go to another one. Once you are happy that you have a positive understanding, then get out the tools.

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    Fellow Frogger! johnh875's Avatar
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    Does the head swap? A lot less grief...

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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    The MI16 Head had different oil galleries so you cant justswap te head. (and im sure there are other reasons).

    Cam
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The oil galleries are the same. You can even add the second pulley, relocate the dip stick and swap the engine mount. The only issue in swapping heads is the pistons. By the time you've swapped those you might as well have swapped the entire block.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Ah, but if you keep the original block you haven't fitted a new engine and don't have to jump through the same hoops! Particularly if you are rebuilding the Mi16 engine anyway

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    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    20Five

    Best bet would be to talk to Kynan Starkz. He has dropped an Mi16 motor into his 205Gti and apparently it was a simple operation for him and his dad.

    Give Alpine Affaire a call about it Colin would certainly have some information on it for you.

    Dave
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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    Give Alpine Affaire a call about it Colin would certainly have some information on it for you.

    Dave
    Definately a good idea. Colin told me that he wired up Kynans car without too many dramas, and reckoned that he could do it quicker and better second time around. (I think he said the loom could be sorted in a day)
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    20Five

    Best bet would be to talk to Kynan Starkz. He has dropped an Mi16 motor into his 205Gti and apparently it was a simple operation for him and his dad.

    Give Alpine Affaire a call about it Colin would certainly have some information on it for you.

    Dave
    I put some pix of Kynans car at Rob Roy up a little while back- under 205 meet?I think? for interests sake...
    205gti

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    I'm making mine look std. as possible, even to the extent of adding a 309GTi16V AFM elbow. I'm hoping it will be a simple blue slip engine number change.
    make sure you do actually need an engineer, see this thread From matt205's post it doesn't sound like you do. and in mine further on you can see simply by checking out their website, that peter's approach is sensible and merely following guidelines. also well within!

    yes they are in NSW, but my point being that this has been discussed before and i thought it could be done without the engineering cert in vic. interesting to see what you find.
    Renn
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    Any more than 10% upgrade with motor swap needs a cert in vic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason micheluzz
    Any more than 10% upgrade with motor swap needs a cert in vic.
    I just found this as well. BTW where did this 10% come from? There are plenty of mod which on ther own or combined will produce a 10% increase. That makes for a lot of technically unregistered cars around.

    Anyway this is what I dug up.

    2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
    A VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory is required. An original receipt for the purchase of the engine must be provided as proof of ownership of the engine.

    A vehicle inspection is normally required, and a Change of Description form must be completed. A vehicle inspection may be waived where a VicRoads' digital image can confirm that the person seeking the change of engine is the registered operator. Completion of the Change of Description form may also be waived where new engine details can be confirmed, e.g. receipt for purchase of engine.


    Vehicle standards 8 says the same thing with kind of a discalmer along the lines that if it is of a similar size, weight, power, emissions etc then it is ok. It doesn't say anything about 10%.

    The way I see it if you make it look as standard as possible, Vic roads inspect it and say it's ok and record the number and you notify your insurance company, then there should be no problem. (I believe this is what Ky did with his Mi205)

    If you ring up an Engineer, of course he's going to tell you that you need a report. The same thing will happen if you ring Vic roads and give them too much infomation.

    If you do a proper conversion and it does slip thru the system then you win. If it doesn't and youv'e done it properly then it should pass an engineers report, but it will cost you $700.00.

    Jarrod

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    The 10% is from vic roads papers.
    It is talking about std power of orig motor vs the power of the transplanted motors STD power(has to be running std checked ecu).
    If you do slip through the gaps without eng report you will be praying that you slip through the gap when your car gets inspected after a serious accident.
    Insurance companies love to crush people...
    There are modified cars with more than 10% increse in power all over the place, and most of them are unroadworthy and will get nothing if in an accident.
    If you are speeding the blame for an accident becomes yours, the same sort of story with an unroadworthy modified car.

    Just do it the right way, it will also help when you sell later on with the cert.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason micheluzz
    The 10% is from vic roads papers.
    It is talking about std power of orig motor vs the power of the transplanted motors STD power(has to be running std checked ecu).
    If you do slip through the gaps without eng report you will be praying that you slip through the gap when your car gets inspected after a serious accident.
    Insurance companies love to crush people...
    There are modified cars with more than 10% increse in power all over the place, and most of them are unroadworthy and will get nothing if in an accident.
    If you are speeding the blame for an accident becomes yours, the same sort of story with an unroadworthy modified car.

    Just do it the right way, it will also help when you sell later on with the cert.
    I don't disagree with what you say but I think if the engine is inspected by vicroads and the new number is added to the rego and you tell you insurance company ie shannons that you have a 16 Valve engine in it I think you would be covered.
    It depends on where you want to draw the line. Do you get it re-engineered evey time you make a change as the engineers report only covers the car as presented to the engineer.
    Also unroadworthy and Illegally modified are two completely separate issues.

    Jarrod

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