Starting on 3 cyl :-(
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Default Starting on 3 cyl :-(

    I have a niggle with the 16V I hope you guys can help me sort out. When I start the car from cold in the morning its starts on 3cyl for about 5-10seconds, when warm i think it still starts on 3cyl but recovers almost straight away.

    The engine has good compression (aside from one cylinder which is a little low but comes good with a squirt of oil) and uses no coolant and the cooling system doesn't seem to overpressurise at all. I have been driving the car daily and it drives beautifully and is very strong. It juts bloody starts on 3 cylinders

    The car has new spark plugs and I have cleaned up all the ht leads and coil leads etc. Could you guys give me some pointers as to where else I can look to find the problem. I will find some time on the weekend to play with unplugging the cylinders one by one to find out exactly which one is the culprit but any advice on where to go from there would be appreciated.

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    Dave


  2. #2
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Dave,
    Sorry but i dont know the answer, instead i got a question for you.

    how do you tell your car is running on 3cyl??
    What are the signs of this??



    Venkat

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    Dave,
    Sorry but i dont know the answer, instead i got a question for you.

    how do you tell your car is running on 3cyl??
    What are the signs of this??



    Venkat
    Sounds like a daihatsu Simple way to find out - go out to your car and pull out a lead from one cyl and turn her on. A four cyl running on 3cyl sounds very rough. Tractorish I will try and take a video when I start her up in the morning if I get time (with audio) and hopefully you can hear it.

    Dave


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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    hasn't got a slight inlet manifold leak has it ?

    when i first put the 604 engine in it would run on 5 when first started then pick up 6 and it all came down to a manifold leak found by using some start ya bastard
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    hasn't got a slight inlet manifold leak has it ?

    when i first put the 604 engine in it would run on 5 when first started then pick up 6 and it all came down to a manifold leak found by using some start ya bastard
    How can I test that out?? Just tighten her up a bit?? Don't have a spare gasket or anything for it.

    Dave


  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    do you kmow which cylinder is kicking in ?

    if so then grab a can of start ya bastard (aerostart) and spray it around the general area of the offending cylinder

    if it kicks in while doing this you have a leak

    take the manifold off and grab some jointing compound and smear it on the gasket and put it back together

    problem solved if that is the problem
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i also just had a thought

    try swapping 2 injectors around and see if the problem follows
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Thanks mate, i'll have a tinker with that on the weekend

    Havent used aerostart since we had a sh!t of a mower a few years back

    Any other hypothesis is appreciated.

    Dave


  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i also just had a thought

    try swapping 2 injectors around and see if the problem follows
    Thanks mate, injectors was going to be my next question. Maybe I should just get them all serviced, probably has never been done before.

    Cheers,

    Dave


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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Thanks mate, i'll have a tinker with that on the weekend

    Havent used aerostart since we had a sh!t of a mower a few years back

    Any other hypothesis is appreciated.

    Dave

    makes finding vacuum leaks a breeze

    smells good too
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I guess my problem is going to be, after the initial start after 5 seconds or so it is going to run on 4 cylinders and I'm going to struggle to find the offending cylinder.


    Dave


  12. #12
    al
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    My car has done this once or twice first thing on really cold mornings... Provided it doesn't do it again i think i can live with it, but i would be interested if you find an answer...

    I think i may have replied to one of your threads on another forum this arvo dave, but i'm not sure... I was going to start paying out cits but i thought better of it...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    so that would be teh 205 forum and your alter ego would be 'perko'
    I don't think I need a rebuild, but more compression and therefore power - and the ability to play with bigger cams is very tempting.

    Dave


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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Less cranking pressure on the dud cylinder, wouldn't ignite as easily. Once it builds up, it goes bang.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    so that would be teh 205 forum and your alter ego would be 'perko'
    Dave
    I am so scared of that place... At the moment it is a really valuable source of info though...

    I guess if you want to start playing with engine mods a rebuild is an obvious start. I always find it amusing when people want to start playing with mods without considering that perhaps their engine isn't running how it is supposed to... The 16 valvers aren't cheap to get rebuilt though are they?
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    The 16 valvers aren't cheap to get rebuilt though are they?
    That's for sure. It costs over $500 just to open one up, before and machining/labour costs. ie gaskets, seals, head bolts, bearings etc.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  17. #17
    al
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    That's for sure. It costs over $500 just to open one up, before and machining/labour costs. ie gaskets, seals, head bolts, bearings etc.
    Far out... How does that compare to the 8 valve engine? I might ask this in a new thread as i will have to do it in the next few weeks... (I'm really scared)

    I'm really glad that my mi16 was rebuilt just before i got it...
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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    I have a niggle with the 16V I hope you guys can help me sort out. When I start the car from cold in the morning its starts on 3cyl for about 5-10seconds, when warm i think it still starts on 3cyl but recovers almost straight away.

    The engine has good compression (aside from one cylinder which is a little low but comes good with a squirt of oil) and uses no coolant and the cooling system doesn't seem to overpressurise at all. I have been driving the car daily and it drives beautifully and is very strong. It juts bloody starts on 3 cylinders

    The car has new spark plugs and I have cleaned up all the ht leads and coil leads etc. Could you guys give me some pointers as to where else I can look to find the problem. I will find some time on the weekend to play with unplugging the cylinders one by one to find out exactly which one is the culprit but any advice on where to go from there would be appreciated.

    Mate i had (sumtimes have) the exact same problem. The car would fire on 3 cylinders or sound like it had lumpy cams in it.

    After a few seconds it would be fine..it would drive fine too. Just occasionally on startup and not just neceserily when it was cold.

    Still even after a new headgasket and pressure testing of the head the car will sometimes sound a bit lumpy on cold startup.
    Also when cold it hits a flatspot at about 2000rpm and sputters...however i think this has to do with my plugs as after they are warm after 10-15 secs on driving the car runs fine with no problems whatsover.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    My first suspicion would be electrical and nothing too serious.
    Disconnect the plugs from the tops of the injectors. Spray with contact cleaner both sections (male and female) wipe a light coat of silicone grease or vaseline in an emergency around the mating brown plastic surfaces and carefully reconnect and refit the wire retainers.
    The first reaction is to swear black and blue they plugs are in there correctly but more often than not, when reassembled particularly is a lubricant such as silicone grease isn't used, the pins actually do slip back up inside the insulation just enough to not make a firm contact which can cause an intermittent or permanent miss.
    Second electrical problem can be the spark plug leads that have that big bulky insulated end on them which can either jam in the plug recess at the top or can foul on the porcelain of the plug and in either case cause the spark to have to arc arcross to the top of the plug. Again, would show the symptoms you car is dispalying.
    If you haven't done the injector kits as yet, I'd also suggest you take a good look at the ones I have posted pics off in the past as regards carbon build up even at around 100K klms and again, this could create a problem on one cylinder.

    http://www.andyspares.com/discussion...TOPIC_ID=11984

    The cars I've done this to have felt as though we've unleashed a missing 10% extra power once this job has been done.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  21. #21
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    OK, courtesy of Tel$tra and dial up, I have now just finished downloading the BX Tractor and had a listen to it (if anybody wonders why I whinge about big threads full of piccies, now they know) and I would say for certain to start at the plug leads; refit and it should be Jake.
    If not, try the other suggestions.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Does it sound like it's distinctly knocking on 3 pots ... Or is it just lumpy as hell (like you BXgt would with the choke full out).

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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Dave - mine used to do that before the rebuild too.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I think its definately down on 3. The problem was there before the new spark plugs and after, so all plug leads were cleaned and refitted a couple of days ago, so I doubt they are the issue, but it can't hurt to have a look. I'll check it out on the weekend. Thanks Alan, and co for the help as always.

    ps, i tried to take the video on as low resolution as possible as I know there are dial up users about. Still 9 odd megs though

    Dave


  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Dave - mine used to do that before the rebuild too.
    Did anyone give you a reason for it or was it because yours was eating water through the head gasket??

    Cheers,

    Dave


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