205GTI - Koni on front, what on back?
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    545

    Default 205GTI - Koni on front, what on back?

    Hi Guys,
    My (wife's) 205 has Koni's on the front. Today I took her for a drive, second drive since it's been back from having another engine fitted. The previous engine blew it and it was cheaper to get another second hand jobbie to put in.

    Anyhow, I took the car for a drive and thought I'd test the brakes, as I'd had new pads and rotors fit on the front. Hmm... the brakes should be bed in by now. The brakes are NOT what you'd expect from a new car. Almost not there then they lock... AND THE REAR OF THE CAR SWINGS OUT TO THE RIGHT, leaving me driving sideways. Booyah, that 205T16 documentary that I watched earlier today was being put to use!

    Advertisement


    Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I'd have thought it's because I've got stiff suspension on the front, but soft on the back, which is leaving the car sideways.

    Thanks guys!
    -- DJ

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    nth balwyn, victoria
    Posts
    1,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ-Studd
    Hi Guys,
    My (wife's) 205 has Koni's on the front. Today I took her for a drive, second drive since it's been back from having another engine fitted. The previous engine blew it and it was cheaper to get another second hand jobbie to put in.

    Anyhow, I took the car for a drive and thought I'd test the brakes, as I'd had new pads and rotors fit on the front. Hmm... the brakes should be bed in by now. The brakes are NOT what you'd expect from a new car. Almost not there then they lock... AND THE REAR OF THE CAR SWINGS OUT TO THE RIGHT, leaving me driving sideways. Booyah, that 205T16 documentary that I watched earlier today was being put to use!

    Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I'd have thought it's because I've got stiff suspension on the front, but soft on the back, which is leaving the car sideways.

    Thanks guys!
    -- DJ

    check your wheel bearings and torsion bar bushes for play.
    i have koni frnt and rear.
    at the mo i have the fronts on 2 setting and the rear on one.
    the only prob with the rear is you have to take the bottom bolt out to adjust it up them refit.
    this is the reason the rears are on setting one as i havnt had the time to crawl under the car,
    apart from that i dont know.....-BAZZ

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Plenty of possiblities but it sounds like the booster vacuum line is not connected ("Almost not there ") and you have a seized rear brake pressure limiting valve ("then they lock... AND THE REAR OF THE CAR SWINGS OUT TO THE RIGHT).

    I suggest the vacuum line because of the engine swap. Do the regular brake booster tests listed in any car maintenance manual.
    I had a rear brake pressure limiting valve seize in my 205 - not good at Phillip Island, very unstable and loosing rubber on one rear tyre. I replaced both of them.

    Different pads front and rear (with the fronts being really low friction ones) will do it.
    So might having one brake circuit without brake fluid ( I think the 205's vary in design and that mine has them diagonally connected front to rear? - can't remember).
    A totally shot rear damper will promote lock-ups at that wheel but not affect braking effort on the fronts.

    Rick Dathan
    Red S3 205GTI

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Heidelberg/melbourne
    Posts
    912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ-Studd
    Hi Guys,
    !

    Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I'd have thought it's because I've got stiff suspension on the front, but soft on the back, which is leaving the car sideways.

    Thanks guys!
    -- DJ
    I would have thought that combo would promote under not over-steer? sounds like brake probs not suspension...
    205gti

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Heidelberg/melbourne
    Posts
    912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Plenty of possiblities but it sounds like the booster vacuum line is not connected ("Almost not there ") and you have a seized rear brake pressure limiting valve ("then they lock... AND THE REAR OF THE CAR SWINGS OUT TO THE RIGHT).

    I suggest the vacuum line because of the engine swap. Do the regular brake booster tests listed in any car maintenance manual.
    I had a rear brake pressure limiting valve seize in my 205 - not good at Phillip Island, very unstable and loosing rubber on one rear tyre. I replaced both of them.

    Rick Dathan
    Red S3 205GTI
    Disconnecting the booster line IMExperience just increases pedal pressure, not that on/off bizzo, in fact more feel, but LOTS more pressure...
    205gti

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    545

    Default

    Koni Yellow's are now fitted to the rear, thanks to Ray Bell.

    The car doesn't *seem* to go sideways under heavy braking, but that could just be because I didn't brake hard enough. The brakes do suck at the moment though, so I'm going to get our mechanic to give it a check over.

    One thing that I have noticed (nobody else seems to pick it up though) is that the steering is lighter to the left than it is to the right. What could be causing this?

    Ta.
    -- DJ

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ-Studd
    Koni Yellow's are now fitted to the rear, thanks to Ray Bell.

    The car doesn't *seem* to go sideways under heavy braking, but that could just be because I didn't brake hard enough. The brakes do suck at the moment though, so I'm going to get our mechanic to give it a check over.

    One thing that I have noticed (nobody else seems to pick it up though) is that the steering is lighter to the left than it is to the right. What could be causing this?

    Ta.
    -- DJ
    The sideways behaviour may be attributed to better rear than front brake power. This imbalance is much more evident while braking on slippery roads or during hard/panic stops. I can think of two reasons for this:

    1. A poorely adjusted front/rear power distribution to begin with, and/or
    2. The new front brakes are so weak that the rears appear stonger.

    Perhaps you should have your mechanic also look at the F/R power distribution when he checks the brakes.

    Thanos

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,160

    Default

    Thought it was the other way around Thanos...

    More rear brake helps keep the back in... hence the Clio's have a large rear brake bias, to ensure they dont get that good ol 205 snap happening!

    I'd say its brakes, too little at the back & too much at the front, hence the front stops but the back wants to keep going any way it can!

    PS. Drive safely!

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,447

    Default

    Are you sure its not that the rear beam roller bearings are completely stuffed?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    Thought it was the other way around Thanos...

    More rear brake helps keep the back in... hence the Clio's have a large rear brake bias, to ensure they dont get that good ol 205 snap happening!

    I'd say its brakes, too little at the back & too much at the front, hence the front stops but the back wants to keep going any way it can!

    PS. Drive safely!
    NO way!
    More rear bias will promote oversteer, that is the basis of handbrake turns.
    Graham

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    NO way!
    More rear bias will promote oversteer, that is the basis of handbrake turns.
    Graham
    hmmm thought that was due to the locking up & lack of traction, hence it doesnt come around if you put it on mildly?!? time for a drive

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    hmmm thought that was due to the locking up & lack of traction, hence it doesnt come around if you put it on mildly?!? time for a drive
    Nate

    I hope you enjoyed your drive and that you did not burn too much rubber with your e-brake turns.

    This rear brakes story is not something Graham and myself just came up with, it has been well known and accepted in racing circles for a long time. Take your bicycle out for a ride and lock your rear brake only; unless you are pointing straight, the back wheel will swing out. Then do the same thing pressing both brakes and you will see that the back wheel does not swing out. It is pretty much the same way with the car; excessive rear brake pressure (relative to the front) will make the rear swing out.

    Thanos

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    Thought it was the other way around Thanos...

    More rear brake helps keep the back in... hence the Clio's have a large rear brake bias, to ensure they dont get that good ol 205 snap happening!

    I'd say its brakes, too little at the back & too much at the front, hence the front stops but the back wants to keep going any way it can!

    PS. Drive safely!
    Nope. Other way around.

    edit: When will I learn to read ALL the posts before [email protected]? Thanos, the bicycle example is a good one.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,160

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    Nope. Other way around.

    edit: When will I learn to read ALL the posts before [email protected]? Thanos, the bicycle example is a good one.
    No its not, i dont have a bike!!!

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    No its not, i dont have a bike!!!
    Borrow one from a friend, Nate, I am sure you have many and someone will loan you one for such a good cause. BTW, what was the outcome of your test drive?

    Thanos

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ-Studd
    Hi Guys,
    ... AND THE REAR OF THE CAR SWINGS OUT TO THE RIGHT, leaving me driving sideways.
    As I said earlier, this behaviour is typical of a 205 with a worn rear beam. The needle rollers rust and turn to dust, leaving excessive and unforgiving play in the swing arms.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  17. #17
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    12

    Default

    What are a set of Konis worth for a 205??
    My 205 is harder to turn right than it is Left?? Why
    I like doing skids on my bike!

    Oh yer, I also have a really loud screaching noise coming from the engine, sounds like an altenater bearing but i am pretty sure it is not. Could a cam bearing scream like this??

    Sorry for jumpin this thread. Just sound like you guys know your
    205s
    Last edited by cranklounge; 2nd September 2005 at 10:44 AM.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! renn_205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Bondi Beach, Sydney
    Posts
    221

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    As I said earlier, this behaviour is typical of a 205 with a worn rear beam. The needle rollers rust and turn to dust, leaving excessive and unforgiving play in the swing arms.
    that's what i thought/read was the cause of the rear of my 205 doing this at times i least needed it too!!! i have had the shocks and brakes checked and they are allegedly fine. so this it must be. that and i know they are stuffed

    there is a very good guide on refurbishing the rear beam on the 205gtidrivers page that makes you not want to do it! mine is still stuffed, me naughty
    Renn
    Peugeot 205 s16
    Megane RS 225 Cup

  19. #19
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cranklounge
    What are a set of Konis worth for a 205??
    My 205 is harder to turn right than it is Left?? Why
    I like doing skids on my bike!

    Oh yer, I also have a really loud screaching noise coming from the engine, sounds like an altenater bearing but i am pretty sure it is not. Could a cam bearing scream like this??

    Sorry for jumpin this thread. Just sound like you guys know your
    205s
    Slipping alternator drive belt.
    Graham

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! biologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    867

    Default

    Maybe I missed it in there somewhere but is there a brake bias adjuster
    on the 205? Most front wheelers have one. It moves braking bias
    front to back as the back is loaded up, with kids, groceries etc.

    In a car I used to own a while back I had a similar problem and it turned
    out the bias adjuster hadn't been refitted after a brake overhaul...

    I reconnected it and all was well again.

    Cheers,
    Biologist
    ----------------
    A
    one Megane Family

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by biologist
    Maybe I missed it in there somewhere but is there a brake bias adjuster
    on the 205? Most front wheelers have one. It moves braking bias
    front to back as the back is loaded up, with kids, groceries etc.

    In a car I used to own a while back I had a similar problem and it turned
    out the bias adjuster hadn't been refitted after a brake overhaul...

    I reconnected it and all was well again.

    Cheers,
    See posts 7-14, I also think it is a possibility.

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,374

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by renn_205
    that's what i thought/read was the cause of the rear of my 205 doing this at times i least needed it too!!! i have had the shocks and brakes checked and they are allegedly fine. so this it must be. that and i know they are stuffed

    there is a very good guide on refurbishing the rear beam on the 205gtidrivers page that makes you not want to do it! mine is still stuffed, me naughty
    Guys,

    you need to link the rear beam article in our common faults section... What a challenge !!! I'm almost tempted to go buy a Poogoe just to see if I can do it Never will I complain about Citroen rear arm bearings again !!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  23. #23
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Guys,

    you need to link the rear beam article in our common faults section... What a challenge !!! I'm almost tempted to go buy a Poogoe just to see if I can do it Never will I complain about Citroen rear arm bearings again !!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I thoght the BX at least would have been the same.
    Graham

  24. #24
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by biologist
    Maybe I missed it in there somewhere but is there a brake bias adjuster
    on the 205? Most front wheelers have one. It moves braking bias
    front to back as the back is loaded up, with kids, groceries etc.

    In a car I used to own a while back I had a similar problem and it turned
    out the bias adjuster hadn't been refitted after a brake overhaul...

    I reconnected it and all was well again.

    Cheers,
    The 205 GTi uses an inertia brake bias valve, as the car stops something in the valve moves forward and blocks off the rear brakes. Don't know if is adjustable, probably not.
    The Si has compensators built into the rear brake cylinders
    Graham

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,374

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    I thoght the BX at least would have been the same.
    Graham
    The CX, BX and Xantia are basically the same. You just have one big sucker of a bolt, two bearings. The big bolt passes through the bearings and retains the arm. It's a reasonably easy job with the right tools, if (and that's a bloody big IF ) you can get the big bolt out and the bearing cage isn't rusted to it.... I'm sure these things get assembled with salty water instead of grease.

    very basically:
    --remove wheel
    --unscrew hose clamp, hydraulic line and remove suspension cylinder and sphere
    --unscrew and remove brake line
    --unbolt anti-roll bar (2bolts)
    --undo big arm retaining bolt and wiggle/curse/scream at the arm to get it out ....

    Could take as little as a couple of hours, or as much as days .... of excrusiating bloody frustration

    The bearings are just a standard SKF item, and can be purchased from the local bearing store.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •