Peugoet 505 Brakes gone Soft!
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default Peugoet 505 Brakes gone Soft!

    Just recently, within a space of 24 hours the brake pedel on my 505 has become extremely soft

    Previously, a simple touch and press pushing it a mear 2cm would start the braking procedure occuring. Currently i have about a foot of pedel play just before it hits the firewall it engages.

    Fluid level is chocoblock.. cant see any leaks anywhere.. Surely if i had extrmely low presure fluid would be getting out.

    Advertisement


    what could be causing this??

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    A good guess is an internal seal/non-return valve, in the master cylinder.
    Easier to replace than to Kit.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    i once had the same problem.....it was the flexible hose on the front, the one that pokes throught the wheel arch, it was balooning when i pressed the pedal but it wasnt leaking.....

    also check the flexible hoses at the back of the car too.....

    failing that if your sure there's no leaks then it must be one of the cylinders, either the master or one of the slaves, they might be bypassing (fluid moving around past the cup seal and returning when you release the brake)

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 123abc
    i once had the same problem.....it was the flexible hose on the front, the one that pokes throught the wheel arch, it was balooning when i pressed the pedal but it wasnt leaking.....

    also check the flexible hoses at the back of the car too.....

    failing that if your sure there's no leaks then it must be one of the cylinders, either the master or one of the slaves, they might be bypassing (fluid moving around past the cup seal and returning when you release the brake)
    Had not considered a balooning hose. (I have seen it before, just never happened to me).
    The slaves either stick or leak, the fluid cannot return to the cylinder once expelled, (the cup seal only keeps the grit out).

    Firstly try a good flush and system check.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default

    balooning.. indeed would have never thought such to possible..

    Cheers for that.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Glen Iris
    Posts
    71

    Default

    The master cylinder is the liklely culprit. As previously mentioned,

    'A good guess is an internal seal/non-return valve, in the master cylinder.
    Easier to replace than to Kit.'


    Fluid seeps past the internal seal/non-return valve. A master cylinder costs about $120 ???...easy to replace. Bleeding the brakes will be the main task.

    Regards,

    Scott

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    Had not considered a balooning hose. (I have seen it before, just never happened to me).
    The slaves either stick or leak, the fluid cannot return to the cylinder once expelled, (the cup seal only keeps the grit out).

    Firstly try a good flush and system check.

    fluid can bypass the internal seals in any hydraulic cylinder if the seal has hardened/worn, pneumatic cylinders are even worse for it....see it all the time at work on large hydraulic cylinders......think of it like a cylinder turning itself into a shock absorber, instead of pushing fluid out into the line, it simply moves it from one side of the piston to the other and bake again.....more likely in a master cylinder though, but still possible in a slave sylinder

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott 505 gti
    The master cylinder is the liklely culprit. As previously mentioned,

    'A good guess is an internal seal/non-return valve, in the master cylinder.
    Easier to replace than to Kit.'


    Fluid seeps past the internal seal/non-return valve. A master cylinder costs about $120 ???...easy to replace. Bleeding the brakes will be the main task.

    Regards,

    Scott
    if it is the master cylinder, a seal kit costs about $12 - $15, and takes about 30mins to replace............personally i wouldnt be changing a whole cylinder unless the bore was pitted

    but thats just me...lol....

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default

    well i have a spair one in the shed either way... have no idea what condition it be in.. looks like it hasnt been driving since 92, most likely that the seals in this one would be usless to??

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 123abc
    if it is the master cylinder, a seal kit costs about $12 - $15, and takes about 30mins to replace............personally i wouldnt be changing a whole cylinder unless the bore was pitted

    but thats just me...lol....
    If the kits are that price, ($12-15) and available and include all internal components, then go for it.
    The bores are the worry, any sign of pitting or scoreing then, "out dammed spot".

    The spare of unknown age and condition is not a bolt-on without a re-kit.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    If the kits are that price, ($12-15) and available and include all internal components, then go for it.
    The bores are the worry, any sign of pitting or scoreing then, "out dammed spot".

    The spare of unknown age and condition is not a bolt-on without a re-kit.

    yer, a seal kit will come with a couple of cup seals, a few little plastic washers and a little seal for around the plunger

    yes, i agree, the unknown spare probabley became a spare because it was stuffed............

    however before you pull everything apart, check all the flexible hoses while someone sits in the car and presses the brake.......

    check around the litle compensator valve thingo at the back, see if it's leaking, but if you say the fluid level is good, then i doubt its leaking........

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    2,678

    Default 123abc

    Quote Originally Posted by 123abc
    if it is the master cylinder, a seal kit costs about $12 - $15, and takes about 30mins to replace............personally i wouldnt be changing a whole cylinder unless the bore was pitted

    but thats just me...lol....
    Is that 30 minutes to remove, rekit and replace in that time?
    To do the job properly a proper clean up of the fluid reservoir, pistons and the cylinder bore is a must. The latter usually requires a light hone to determine its condition. Then very carefull assembly.
    Even in a professional situation you would be looking at a minimum 1 hour job.
    Although in the above it would simply be fitting a new cylinder.

    A small tip, to minimize the bleeding process carry out a pre-bleed on the bench then with the pipe holes blanked off and the reservoir full fit the assembly loosely to the car. Fit the pipes to the cylinder, the fluid will bleed past as this is done. Tighten the pipes then the mounting nuts.
    Providing no air has been pumped through the system you may get away without bleeding. x2

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Is that 30 minutes to remove, rekit and replace in that time?
    To do the job properly a proper clean up of the fluid reservoir, pistons and the cylinder bore is a must. The latter usually requires a light hone to determine its condition. Then very carefull assembly.
    Even in a professional situation you would be looking at a minimum 1 hour job.
    Although in the above it would simply be fitting a new cylinder.

    A small tip, to minimize the bleeding process carry out a pre-bleed on the bench then with the pipe holes blanked off and the reservoir full fit the assembly loosely to the car. Fit the pipes to the cylinder, the fluid will bleed past as this is done. Tighten the pipes then the mounting nuts.
    Providing no air has been pumped through the system you may get away without bleeding. x2


    yes, half an hour,

    to remove ( what is it, two bolts and three brake lines)

    dis assemble (1 lonely circlip, two lock washers, and a little blade screw in the first piston)

    clean and inspect, (rag on the end of a little bit off dowl wood/finger)

    reassemble (slide all the bits back in with new seals)

    refit circlip

    refit to car, fit brake lines loosely, fill with fluid, wait a few minutes then tighten brake lines..........bleed front brakes if nessisary

    thats how i did mine.......works like a charm, estimated half an hour


    and a master cylinder doesnt need a light honeing unless it has polished spots (where the rubber from the seal has desintergrated and stuck to the bore). if it has big gouges or pitting, then you can either get it resleeved ($50 for a stainless resleeve when i did the ute, wouldnt be any differant for a pug, just a quick machine job on a pre bored blank bit of stock tube)

    i would suspect that there would be mechanics out there who would prefer the "new cylinder method"............two bolts and three brake lines then bleed the brakes, that'll be 70 bucks labour thanks (on top of parts) i dunno what auto electritians are like, as a know absolutly nothing about electrics...but some mechanic shops, ya gotta wonder aye.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    2,678

    Default 505 brakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 123abc
    yes, half an hour,

    to remove ( what is it, two bolts and three brake lines)

    dis assemble (1 lonely circlip, two lock washers, and a little blade screw in the first piston)

    clean and inspect, (rag on the end of a little bit off dowl wood/finger)

    reassemble (slide all the bits back in with new seals)

    refit circlip

    refit to car, fit brake lines loosely, fill with fluid, wait a few minutes then tighten brake lines..........bleed front brakes if nessisary

    thats how i did mine.......works like a charm, estimated half an hour


    and a master cylinder doesnt need a light honeing unless it has polished spots (where the rubber from the seal has desintergrated and stuck to the bore). if it has big gouges or pitting, then you can either get it resleeved ($50 for a stainless resleeve when i did the ute, wouldnt be any differant for a pug, just a quick machine job on a pre bored blank bit of stock tube)

    i would suspect that there would be mechanics out there who would prefer the "new cylinder method"............two bolts and three brake lines then bleed the brakes, that'll be 70 bucks labour thanks (on top of parts) i dunno what auto electritians are like, as a know absolutly nothing about electrics...but some mechanic shops, ya gotta wonder aye.
    123abc,
    Chacun a son gout.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default

    i would suspect that there would be mechanics out there who would prefer the "new cylinder method"
    Well indeed... i gave my mechanic a call and he's like. .yeah.. have to order it in.. $200 and an hour later you'll be right

    i even asked him if a kit will do and hes like.. yeah nah! we dont bother with kit.. $150 for that part, $50 in labour you'll be right..

    I dont have that cash...

    If it isthe master valve that has broke... how long can i drive on the slave? before im left with no brakes? and where can i order in kit from? Repco? Super Cheap?

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    To risky to drive anywhere.
    A brake problem is not one to be ignored.
    Do not move the car until it is fixed..........
    It is possible that you may suffer a complete loss of stopping ability, while heading down hill into a Merc and onto a childcare centre on seniors day.

    And as for the Hand brake on a 505..... I have one and it works as well as it did when it left the factory.....Where is the parking brick....
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default

    parking brake works ok... just have to ask hulk Hogan to pull it up for ya

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    123abc,
    Chacun a son gout.
    et pour certains, il peut être aquired le goût

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    Well indeed... i gave my mechanic a call and he's like. .yeah.. have to order it in.. $200 and an hour later you'll be right

    i even asked him if a kit will do and hes like.. yeah nah! we dont bother with kit.. $150 for that part, $50 in labour you'll be right..

    I dont have that cash...

    If it isthe master valve that has broke... how long can i drive on the slave? before im left with no brakes? and where can i order in kit from? Repco? Super Cheap?


    last time i did it, it was about 15 bucks, however, after a quick phone call to supplier, it appears that depending on the type of cylinder (there are several, ATE, Gerling, Bendix etc.) the price may differ, but he assured me that the most expensive kit is the kit for the most rare cylinder, which is just under 50bucks................now, chances are that you have a more common cylinder, esspesially if it has been changed before (more then likely) so the price will be around 30 bucks or so.....

    mine just happend to be 15bucks or so ( i cant remember exactly) but yer, sorry for any confusion, either way its a lot cheaper then the other option......however....

    before you go and order stuff, if you're sure its the master cylinder, pull it apart to make sure that it isnt pitted or whatever first, otherwise you'll find yourself with a kit that wont fix the problem..........

    you're in newcastle, so i dunno any suppliers down there, but i get parts from this bloke(07) 33446624, and he sends stuff everywhere so it shouldnt be a problem......otherwise someone from your area should be able to help with a supplier down your way......

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    2,678

    Default 505 brakes...

    Quote Originally Posted by 123abc
    et pour certains, il peut être aquired le goût
    123 abc.
    Touche.
    Je dois jeter mon dictionnaire Francois d`ecole.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    123 abc.
    Touche.
    Je dois jeter mon dictionnaire Francois d`ecole.

    j'ai juste triché et ai utilisé le traducteur d'altavista.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Picton NSW
    Posts
    1,412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 123abc
    j'ai juste triché et ai utilisé le traducteur d'altavista.
    Je préfère le worldlingo

    www.worldlingo.com
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Hiding in a bush somewhere in ENGLAND
    Posts
    5,312

    Default

    Vraiment, nous avons ici les derrieres intelligents.
    Mais les accents?
    Dommage, ils sont merde

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default

    getting spamed by the french...

    didnt see that one comming

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •