405 Mi16 as a tow car?
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  1. #1
    Member Pugknut's Avatar
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    Icon5 405 Mi16 as a tow car?

    Hi all,

    wonder if anyone can advise on the max legal weight you can tow with one of these and what people think of one as a tow car. I am looking for something to drag my little rally car around (it weighs just over 900kg) and I figure if I knock together a light weight trailer, this could be a good combination.

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    Hoges

  2. #2
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    I used a 1905cc MI16 as a tow car for my Formula Vee (before I chucked the Vee into the backdrop) for a number of years and found it a pretty good tow car.

    I also towed a pop top caravan with it again without any real problems. Between towing the Vee and the van up and down the east coast and South Australia the MI16 covered around 15,000 km towing without any problems.

    The most important issue is to keep the ball weight within the Peugeot limits. I seem to recall that this is around 70 kg. I would also recommend electric brakes on the trailer.

    JYD

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    It's a MUCH better tow car if you advance the inlet cam with one of Owen Wuiilemin's offset cam keys.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  4. #4
    Member Pugknut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    It's a MUCH better tow car if you advance the inlet cam with one of Owen Wuiilemin's offset cam keys.
    More torque then from this mod I take it? Sounds like it might be just the thing, now I just have to:

    a: Convince her indoors that it is a good plan
    b: wait for the right one to come along and
    c: get rid of the Patrol.

    Thanks for the advice guys.

  5. #5
    al
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    How would the rear end cope with a trailer? When i have a couple of decent sized people in the back it sits pretty low...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JY Dog

    The most important issue is to keep the ball weight within the Peugeot limits. I seem to recall that this is around 70 kg. I would also recommend electric brakes on the trailer.

    JYD
    Hmm 70kg ball weight, which should be 10% of the trailer weight = approx 700kg. 900kg for the car with no trailer, you do the maths.
    Neil
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    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    My old man had to tow a 1950's Mk5 Jaguar (over 1500kg+) and he used his S2 Mi16 to tow it.

    He said it was great for towing and was very surprised at how it had no trouble at all even up hills. He had to tow the car from country victoria to inner melbourne.
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  8. #8
    Member Pugknut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    Hmm 70kg ball weight, which should be 10% of the trailer weight = approx 700kg. 900kg for the car with no trailer, you do the maths.
    Hi Cruiserman,

    where does the "should be 10%" come from? Is this a typical design / loading criteria, or rule of thumb?

    Cheers

    Hoges

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    10% is a considered rule of thumb. Saying that I towed my 650Kg 4CV on a reasonably light trailer up to 100kph with my 306 with no difficulty. The trailer brakes were well set up, overide Falcon discs and made the trip a pleasure. I did juggle the position of the 4CV, but did not check the towball weight.
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    The accepted range (by specialist magazines) for ball weight is usually between 7 - 12% of trailer weight. I currently tow a trailer carrying a Clubman with a ball weight of 7% and it tows very well at 100 kph. As I said I recall the figure for the 405 to be around 70kg but this is from memory. However from my experience with the MI16 a few kg over was not a problem.

    The main thing for safe towing is loading the weight correctly and obviously axle location. From my experience I would strongly recommend the use of electric brakes instead of over ride units.

    JYD

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Getcha self a Citroen Xantia CT turbo and don't worry about all the other crap. Any ball weight will be ok, so long as you keep about 10% of the trailer weight there.

    I imagine an 8valve would tow better than the 16valve. I have a 17' (ultralight) caravan and the 8valve slugomatic Xantia tows it ok. Sometimes on constant gradiants will restrict you to 80-90km/h though.

    Nothing matches the old CX though .... If you really want to tow a nice weight (for a car of it's size/weight... Obviously some sh!t for brains womens 3ton tank will probably tow better).

    seeya,
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    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 12th June 2005 at 02:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    ... Obviously some sh!t for brains 3ton tank will probably tow better).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yeah, I've already got on of those (GQ PAtrol, 4.2l diseasel) but I'm thinking to replace it with something a bit cheaper and more economical for daily use. Then I can use it for PCCV speed events, motorkhanas etc. which the triumph is not suited for. Anyway, I appear to be losing the battle with the other half on this one " you want another car to do events in... "

    Hoges

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    as mentioned above, towball loading gives you stability and prevents trailer wondering behind the car.

    General accepted range of loading is about 8~10%. If having 75kg tow ball loading as MAX acceptable, would give 405 about 750~900 range.
    Any trailer over 700kg (gross weight) must have independent braking system (override or electric).

    which brings us to what can tow that. I have seen 407 used as a tow car, and it apperas to sit a tad low in the ass end but the owner is happy (until something breaks?). My commy drops a tad (50mm) but is well within the towing limits for the ball loading and mass of trailer. Still returns about 12L/100kms when towing.
    Most of the people at supersprints do use larger vehicles for towing.
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekkie
    Most of the people at supersprints do use larger vehicles for towing.
    Yes, I use my trusty Patrol!

    '92 205 Mi16
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  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Simple physics, the bigger the tow car, the better it *should* be towing the same weight. The likes of the 405/BX I reckon are simply to light (though the crazie [email protected] in the UK tow things like 19' caravans with BX's So they can't be to bad).

    If I had something heavy and big that I needed to regually tow, a turbo diesel 4wd would be on the top of my list. A little light weight sprint car I could tow effortlessly behind my CX. A standard falcon or commodore will tow these types of things easily too (a new fowlcan will tow 2500kgs I've heard).

    The best bit about Citroens, is you can put some decent ball weight on them if required and they simply self level, the back of the car justs lifts to the correct height. Though the whole towed vehicle looks really good and level/stable this doesn't mean it can't be overloaded. I think the CX is only allowed to tow 1500kgs according to my factory manual, however I've had things like massive 850+kg car trailers with 1.5ton Citroen DS's on them behind it. They tow really well and it doesn't look overloaded ..... But simple physics says a load that heavy could go wrong really fast if something happened (eg: the trailers brakes not working, trailer get the speed wobbles/shredding a tire etc...).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  16. #16
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    This is worth a read based on others experiences.

    http://www.andyspares.com/discussion...TOPIC_ID=14443


    Alan S

    Ps. Just remember when these guys talk speeds, they are referring to MPH not KPH. They still work speed and distance in miles over there.
    Last edited by Alan S; 13th June 2005 at 12:01 PM.
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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Where it all becomes very interesting is if you have an accident, insurance companies have the task of trying to weasel out of any claim. If you are outside your towing limits kiss goodbye to your claim, and hope you didnt hit anything too expensive to repair.
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

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  18. #18
    Member Pugknut's Avatar
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    I never even considered a Citroen being a pug man, but might have to reconsider based on that information.

    Many thanks to all of those who have posted in with their first hand accounts of towing with a 405, but is there someone out there who can answer the question fom the vehicles rated capacity? In Victoria, the legal load (if not specified by the vehicle manufacturer) is 1.5 times the towing vehicle weight, but I am sure that the 405 will have a manufacturer specified towing capacity.

    Come to think of it, what about the Citroen's rated capacity?

    Cheers

    Hoges

  19. #19
    jgp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugknut
    I never even considered a Citroen being a pug man, but might have to reconsider based on that information.

    Many thanks to all of those who have posted in with their first hand accounts of towing with a 405, but is there someone out there who can answer the question fom the vehicles rated capacity? In Victoria, the legal load (if not specified by the vehicle manufacturer) is 1.5 times the towing vehicle weight, but I am sure that the 405 will have a manufacturer specified towing capacity.

    Come to think of it, what about the Citroen's rated capacity?

    Cheers

    Hoges
    I have the owners handbook for my s1 if you can tell me the type code number for your car i''ll look it up. eg 15BDF... or 15BDD.... its in the VIN number.
    90 405 MI16
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugknut
    Yeah, I've already got on of those (GQ PAtrol, 4.2l diseasel) but I'm thinking to replace it with something a bit cheaper and more economical for daily use.

    Hoges
    But they're bullet proof and cheap to run! It would be a false economy to swap it for another tow vehicle. Just keep driving it until it's dead. I've got 345 000 on mine now, still going strong.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  21. #21
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The limit on a BX is 1100 kgs according to the handbook and it's load capacity is 1500 kgs.

    I can't speak for a Xantia, but being a somewhat heavier vehicle I could imagine it would be higher.


    Alan S
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  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    actually the Xantias tongue limit is very low .... And due to this bloody thread I've just realised why They have no doubt given the Xantia the identical towing capabilities of the 406 ie: they seem to have forgotten the hydraulics will take far more drawbar weight than a 406 with [email protected] suspension.

    My Xantia can't legally tow my fathers 16' caravan as it's drawbar weight is far to heavy (though no doubt it would tow it extremely well.... Especially if it was a V6 or CT turbo).

    Check the tow ratings well before purchasing the Xantia. I'm bloody positive it'll tow any you wish with supreme ease (within reason), however you insurance will be void if your outside the specs stamped on the towbar (bloody poogoe stuffing everything up .... Even the old DS could tow 1800kgs according to my handbook).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    The folks at CARASEL explained to me that a 405 towbar and a 306 is the same model and its rated at 75Kg Max tow ball weight. My S16 and your 405 have similar power power/weight characteristics and I can say with experiance that my S16 made a poor tow car.
    Getting of the line smoothly will be your clutch leg work out... - Chris
    Last edited by CHRI'S16; 14th June 2005 at 02:21 PM.
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  24. #24
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    You can haul all knds of things with a CX

    This log is twice the length of the car. AndyN saw it when he was here and was a bit stunned when he saw the size of it in the flesh I think.



    Alan S
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    What's with everyone going on like 4WDs make good towcars? In my observation they're not at all the wasp's nipples. Every time I see some vehicle struggling up a hill at about 65 km/h, wallowing and bumping with something moderately heavy in tow... it's a 4WD. This is really noticeable at night, when you're getting blinded by d!ckhead's "dipped" lights because the soft rear suspension on their high-centre-of-gravity beast is squished down to the floor...

    They're heavy, so they don't notice a small or medium sized trailer so much, but they always look like an accident waiting to happen with something big on behind

    Chris
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