Gearbox problems in 505
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  1. #1
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    Default Gearbox problems in 505

    Heya,

    Just recently my gearbox has started becoming really stiff, and when I go to put it into gear (mainly 1st & 2nd) it almost feels like i'm going to break something! And it usually grinds a bit aswell. I'm not entirely sure what model gearbox I have but its in an 81' 505 GR sedan (5 speed box), is it a ba10 or 7 ?. The box is leaky and probably needs new seals, but I always keep it topped up with oil. What would new seals be worth ? Maybe the internals need replacing ?

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    Cheers,

    Glen

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    From what you describe, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a clutch problem...

    You probably have a BA10/5 in that car.

    There is the other possibility that it's the result of a spring failing in the synchros... is it just one gear or all gears that are affected? Upchanges or downchanges? Is it hard to engage while stopped?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    it would be a BA10/5

    try some nulon G70 in it and see how it goes

    higher gears are normally easier then lower gears anyway to engage
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  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Nulon won't help if it's a clutch problem, however, and it might positively lead to disaster if it's a synchro spring going...

    Once again, I think we need a more careful analysis before suggesting a remedy.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    I agree with Ray. It sounds like the clutch isn't completely disengaging when the pedal is depressed. Try starting it in first with the clutch depressed on a flat low friction surface like a concrete pad and see if it creeps. If it does the clutch may need replacement. It could also be that the master or slave clutch cylinders are u/s and need replacing or a set of new rubbers put through them. Where is the leak is coming from? All Pug boxes leak from the speedo cable entrance point. As for the cost of seals and clutches have a look at:

    http://www.eai.net.au/PEUGEOT505.htm

    for a guide.

    Matt.
    On the internet, no one knows that you are only wearing a fez.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    From what you describe, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a clutch problem...

    You probably have a BA10/5 in that car.

    There is the other possibility that it's the result of a spring failing in the synchros... is it just one gear or all gears that are affected? Upchanges or downchanges? Is it hard to engage while stopped?
    Yep, all the gears are affected, up & down changes. And it is very hard to put into gear if I am stopped...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph
    I agree with Ray. It sounds like the clutch isn't completely disengaging when the pedal is depressed. Try starting it in first with the clutch depressed on a flat low friction surface like a concrete pad and see if it creeps. If it does the clutch may need replacement. It could also be that the master or slave clutch cylinders are u/s and need replacing or a set of new rubbers put through them. Where is the leak is coming from? All Pug boxes leak from the speedo cable entrance point. As for the cost of seals and clutches have a look at:

    http://www.eai.net.au/PEUGEOT505.htm

    for a guide.

    Matt.

    I believe the leak is coming from the main seal at the front of the box. And cheers for the website, I'll have a look through and see what I can find.

    Glen

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
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    definatly sounds like a clutch problem, does the car jerk slightly when you put it into first while stopped?

    check all the clutch hydraulics first, ie. fluid levels, leaks in the lines and under the carpet around the hole in the firewall, how hard the clutch pedal feels and is it returning under pressure or just by spring pressure.

    if that comes up no good, then it doesnt matter if its a clutch or gearbox problem, the gearbox will most likely have to come out, but dont buy anything until you trace the problem to either clutch or gearbox.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I wouldn't rule out gearbox problems at all. in fact i think it is the gearbox not the cluch that is to blame. i have a similar problem in my 504 ba10 (4 speed) gearbox. the problem i believe it with a clip that holds the syncromesh in place, it wears out and breaks. this makes the syncro loose, but it still functions, just no wear near as well. This is what i have been lead to believe through a little research, but don't quote me on it! however if you ask a mechanic that is familiar with peugeots, the desciption i gave should tell him what the real problem is. its common in these boxes, both 5 and 4 speed. it can be fixed, but im just replaceing mine. i find it hard to change into 1st and 2nd, with lose of meshing if i change quickly. And i KNOW it isn't a clutch prolem in my case. just my thoughs, sorry for the essay

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    This is the problem to which I was alluding when I said about 'one gear or all gears affected'...

    Problem is, eventually that spring comes out and can jam between teeth... damage is great.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuGmAn
    Heya,

    Just recently my gearbox has started becoming really stiff, and when I go to put it into gear (mainly 1st & 2nd) it almost feels like i'm going to break something! And it usually grinds a bit aswell. I'm not entirely sure what model gearbox I have but its in an 81' 505 GR sedan (5 speed box), is it a ba10 or 7 ?. The box is leaky and probably needs new seals, but I always keep it topped up with oil. What would new seals be worth ? Maybe the internals need replacing ?

    Cheers,

    Glen
    did you get my suggestionof putting Bitron 2-4-6 Metal treament, this stuff is amazing sorry I am not too familiar how this website works yet.I put some in my gearbox and the result was amazing,everything became smooth like it never was before.Better than new.Give it a go look up the Bitron Australia website to order.
    Cheers
    David.

  12. #12
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    Well, I took the Gearbox & Clutch out on the weekend, and it seems that it is the clutch which is the problem. The clutch plate is just about completely worn, and not only that but the fork thing that sticks out the side of the bell housing (cant remeber the name of this) was actually broken at the pivot point.

    Also, there is a bit of fluid around near the clutch pedal (the push rod ?) , is this any real drama ?

    Looks like I need to break into my savings


    Glen
    Last edited by PuGmAn; 6th June 2005 at 02:33 PM.

  13. #13
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    Also, when I replace the clutch do the pressure plate bolts need to be a certain tension ?

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    There is a tension in the book... but if the spring washers (they look like flat washers, but have a slight bow in them) are there it's a case of tight enough and not too tight will do.

    Do you have a means of lining up the clutchplate nice and central?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    There is a tension in the book... but if the spring washers (they look like flat washers, but have a slight bow in them) are there it's a case of tight enough and not too tight will do.

    Do you have a means of lining up the clutchplate nice and central?

    I'll have to check on those washers to see what type they are, but unfortunately I dont have a workshop manuel to get the correct tension.

    Well, I'm not really all that clued up about putting it all back together, but i'm going to get my dad to help me out with that as he seems to have a fairly extensive knowledge about the mechanical side of cars. But if you could suggest a good & easier method it would be very much appreciated.



    Glen

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuGmAn
    I'll have to check on those washers to see what type they are, but unfortunately I dont have a workshop manuel to get the correct tension.

    Well, I'm not really all that clued up about putting it all back together, but i'm going to get my dad to help me out with that as he seems to have a fairly extensive knowledge about the mechanical side of cars. But if you could suggest a good & easier method it would be very much appreciated.



    Glen

    your past the hard bit, which is taking the box out, its all down hill from here.

    i have scaned the clutch pages from the manual but the stupid upload page wont work, so i can email them to you if you like.

    fluid around the clutch pedal meens leaky seal in the master cylinder, if they charge you more then $20 for a seal kit, ill be shocked!!! and i was last qouted around 200 bucks for a clutch kit
    Last edited by 123abc; 6th June 2005 at 07:42 PM.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Gearbox 505

    Quote Originally Posted by PuGmAn
    Also, when I replace the clutch do the pressure plate bolts need to be a certain tension ?
    Pugman,
    The pressure plate screws are usually tightened by the experience method.
    But if you feel the need to torque them, around 18 foot pounds would do.

    If replacing the clutch pressure and drive plate, the Valeo kit supplies, or did, a clutch aligning tool, plastic but it works.
    When ordering your new fork get a new pivot ball as well.

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Regarding the leaky gearbox...

    Now you've gone to the trouble of dismantling things, do you see where the leaks are coming from?

    It's a fairly easy job to replace the front seal... take off the bellhousing and fit it in behind the sleeve the throwout bearing runs on. Rear one is similar... but it's quite likely the leaks are elsewhere and much more difficult to stop.

  19. #19
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    Just got an email back from EAI and they quoted me $212.25 for the clutch kit and clutch fork. Seems like a good deal, hopefully it wont take too long to get here!



    Glen
    1981 505GR sedan - Work in Progress

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Did they quiz you about which fork you have?

    There are a couple of different ones...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Did they quiz you about which fork you have?

    There are a couple of different ones...
    Nope, but they asked me for my chassis No. to determine the correct clutch kit, so I guess they use that to identify the right fork aswell.
    1981 505GR sedan - Work in Progress

  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That should do it...

    But this reminds me about the thread in Froggy Chat about spare parts men... I don't think there's anything different between the 404 and 505 iron block engines as far as the clutch goes... except maybe the wagons. They're certainly all interchangeable.

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